Shining World

Is There A Place For Prayer in Vedanta?

Kendra: Is there a place for prayer in Advaita Vedanta?

Sundari: Yes of course there is a place for prayer in Vedanta. But nondual prayer is very different from dualistic prayer – which is usually from the perspective that things are not what you want or believe they ‘should’ be, and you want them to be different. Nondual prayer involves focusing the mind on a single object for a length of time thus invoking the Self for a specific purpose.  It is sending out the love you are to the “other” whom you know is not ‘other’, because as Awareness, you see everything as Awareness.

Prayer should not be about wanting things to be different but offered in the spirit of karma yoga, which is in devotion to the Self.  Even in the case of the hope for a particular result, for instance if you are praying for someone who is very ill, if your prayer is nondual, as the Self you know that everything is perfect. As an inquirer dedicated to moksa, whether or not Self-knowledge is firm, you know that you are not the doer and the results of any action or thought are not up to you.  You understand that on the mithya plane, prarabdha karma is playing out the way it must, and everything is perfect no matter what the outcome is. It is all Isvara.  

On the subject of karma, even the sages are perplexed, as the scripture says. So although you can pray for a specific outcome, if it is done in the spirit of karma yoga, true prayer is really worship, because true karma yoga is bhakti yoga. As Krishna says in the BG says, ‘in whatever way you worship me, I will come to you and make your faith strong’.

Kendra: I ask after hearing the letter read in the Sunday Zoom from the person who goes for 7-10 days without food, due to little or no money, experiencing hunger pangs. Whatever his circumstances, he apparently needs help with “food security” and “poverty reduction”. The body does deteriorate without food. He could risk electrolyte imbalance and/or serious health complications.   

Is praying for a suffering jiva, given the dualistic nature of prayer, appropriate?  I felt called to do so in meditation this morning as compassion arose.

Sundari: It’s a kind thought, but who says this inquirer is suffering? These are your projections. Actually, this inquirer is a young man who does not need saving or your compassion. He likes his life the way it is. He does not want to work or to be part of the ‘system’ as he has a sanyasi temperament. He is a Self-realized person whom Isvara takes care of.

Kendra: As the Self, I have no need to pray. I’m good with myself and the world, as it is. As a jiva, I feel comfort when I repeat mantra japa for suffering persons. Does that strengthen the identity with “the doer”?

Sundari: You can’t be the Self and the jiva, so who are you? If there is only one Self and therefore, one jiva, why would you need to pray for another jiva? While compassion for others is a good value, if the doer is ‘doing’ japa then you are not practicing karma yoga. If you are really ok with the world the way it is, why would that not include the ‘suffering’ (that you perceive) of “others’? There are no others. I understand your compassion, and it is hard to witness the suffering in this world without feeling for those most affected. It’s a fine line. But if we truly accept that Isvara is behind everything, then we must offer our compassion on the altar of karma yoga in the spirit of devotion, because how do we know the purpose of another’s prarabdha? We never do, not as the Self or the jiva.

I have attached the teaching on prayer by Swami P for you, it is very good.

Kendra: Your response easily exposes jiva identity connected to mantra japa, while the clarity around non-dual prayer is beautiful…”sending out the love you are to the “other” whom you know is not ‘other’”.

Sundari: Yes, this is true.  As wonderful as japa is, like anything else, it can become a stumbling block if one becomes too identified and the ego sneaks in. Duality is insidious, like smoke that creeps in under the door and through the cracks. It’s an expert at masking itself under the guise of sattva.  Japa, like any devotional practice (including karma yoga, which as stated, is also essentially a devotional practice), makes you feel very good. The mind likes it especially when overwhelmed by rajas and tamas, because bhakti helps to calm it down and returns it to sattva. 

In fact, prayer and chanting (any devotional practice) are very good antidotes to a disturbed, fragmented, emotional or depressed mind.  It’s so powerful that I think it could even prevent suicides, if a mind in that state could only practice it. Living nonduality is so subtle, in many ways, we want to encourage genuine inquirers who struggle with nonduality to forget about moksa and just live a dharmic devotional life, dedicated to karma yoga and bhakti yoga. Leave the rest to the grace of Isvara.

Kendra: I sincerely appreciate being able to ask you and or Ramji questions, also Rory. I like the phrase, “I know what I know and I know what I don’t know”.  The privilege of being able to ask questions to Self-Realized jnanis is rare. My gratitude flows to Ishvara for allowing me to receive knowledge where there is uncertainty and lack of understanding. You are so kind. “Knock and the Door shall be opened” has a new meaning.

Sundari: Thank you Kendra, we are as blessed, and it is a great privilege for us to be helpful in passing on these priceless teachings – God’s words.

Kendra: Thank you also for including Swami P’s “Rules of Prayer”.  “Praying thus, let us grow and contribute our best”.  Isn’t that so beautiful? Cole and I had the privilege of attending  a Swami P retreat awhile back and just reading that last line evokes tears, because the love is so genuine and pure in our Sampradaya. 

Sundari: I have much devotion for Swami P, and would love to meet him one day.

Much love

Sundari

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