Peter: The “I sense” is in mithya yet the I is said to be here and now as the fabric of all experience. My way of understanding it is that the I is neither the ocean nor the waves but the water which is both and neither.
Sundari: If we are using the water and the wave metaphor for Awareness it is correct to say that Awareness is the water, the ocean is Isvara, and the jiva/world the waves. Water is water regardless of what form it comes in, so yes, water is both and neither. Without water, there is no ocean and no waves. The ocean and the wave are dependent on the water, but the water is always free of both. But the important thing to grasp is that the water, the ocean, and the wave all have the same identity as Awareness. So, ultimately, all three are both and neither because there is only one principle in reality and that is Awareness, which all three dissolve into.
The question here is, what do you mean by “I’ and ‘sense’? Vedanta teaches the language of identity, which is to say, it reveals that there is only one “I”, the Self. So, when we use the word ‘I’ and we know this, we automatically discriminate between the eternal I and the ‘I-sense’, which is our personal identity as a jiva, the reflected self or ahamkara. Let’s unfold this teaching using your water metaphor. First, let’s clarify the two dimensions in existence: satya, that which is real, meaning always present and unchanging, and mithya, that which is apparently real, meaning not always present and always changing.
Satya, “The I” (water), is the fabric of Existence, the non-experiencing witness which makes experience possible. Mithya is comprised of Isvara wielding Maya (the ocean), and the world/ jiva (waves). However, Isvara as the ocean is free of the waves; an ocean is still an ocean with or without waves. But there can be no waves without an ocean. Therefore, the jiva is dependent on both the water and the ocean. To further complicate things, though both Isvara (Causal body) and the jiva (Subtle body) only appear when Maya manifests and therefore qualify as mithya, both Isvara and Jiva are eternal principles in Awareness, either manifest or unmanifest. When the Gross body dies, the Subtle body gets subsumed back into the Causal body from whence it came. But the personal ‘I sense’ or ego, does not. The jivas’ sense of self or identity dies with the body.
Therefore, the ‘I sense” only applies to the manifest (embodied) jiva whether it knows it is the Self or not. Isvara does not have an ‘I sense’ because it knows it is the Self, Satya. Though Isvara gives rise to the apparent reality, it is not under the spell of Maya because it is the creative principle, it governs the gunas and is not ‘in’ mithya like the jiva is. Unlike the jiva, Isvara has no desires or fears. It takes care of the Total as an impersonal principle, providing jivas with a Field of Existence in which to work out their karma and is the giver of the results of action.
The two dimensions, satya and mithya, never meet; they are in different orders of reality, that which is real and apparently real. They never meet because that which is apparently real, mithya or duality, is a superimposition onto satya, nonduality. Anything in the mithya dimension cannot affect or negate satya, just as a movie on a screen does not affect the screen. Once the movie is over the screen is unmodified. Or the table in a wooden table does not negate the wood. If you weigh the wood and subtract the weight of the table, the weight of the wood is the same. When you know you are the Self, satya, then personal ignorance is removed permanently by Self-knowledge. There is no more mithya, for you. The apparent reality still exists as it always has, and you still have an ‘I sense’, i.e., the jiva with personal identity its life story. But you are no longer under the spell of Maya so no longer identified with it.
Duality is only a problem if you don’t know what it is and take it to be real. Hence, moksa is defined as the ability to discriminate you satya, from mithya, 24/7. As satya, you are always free of mithya so there is no reason to get rid of mithya, the ‘I sense’ or ego. The problem is due to a confusion of the word ‘I sense’ and ignorance. The ‘I sense’ is an effect of ignorance (mithya) that remains when Vedanta reveals the fact that your true nature is limitless Awareness. But the good news is that although it remains, it is as good as non-existent because the I sense has no effect on you as satya, as stated.
Where the confusion about the ‘I sense’ originated is the idea that we must destroy the ego to be free of it, largely due to the misunderstandings around Patanjali, Ramana Maharshi, and Nisargadatta’s teachings. Ramana, like Nisagardatta, didn’t clarify the distinction between original pure Consciousness (satya) and the reflected self (the ‘I sense’) which is mithya. So, people try to ‘cling to the ‘I sense’ as a practice that boils down to clinging to something that is apparently real, i.e., an object. In the case of Ramana bhaktas they want to get rid of the ego, which is a yogic notion that came from Patanjali. It’s a pointless exercise keeping people stuck in yoga trying to ‘do’ their way out of ignorance, which never works because the doer is the problem.
You cannot do your way to gaining something you already have, only knowledge sets you free of the ignorance of this fact. You cannot get rid of something which is not real nor that which is real. Freedom is knowing the difference between the two and taking the latter as your identity. Furthermore, the ‘I sense’ or ego is an essential component of the Subtle Body, which has several functions, one of which is the ‘I sense.’ The Subtle body is always present, even in deep sleep, where it is unmanifest because the mind/intellect is subsumed into the Causal Body. There is always a ‘functional’ ego, ahamkara (the “I sense”) if we are to function normally in the world. You can’t do actions unless they are motivated by a thought (“I want” or “I don’t want,” for instance); that’s the way Isvara has set it up. Doing itself is not a problem only the identification with the doer is. An ego/doer under the management of Self-knowledge causes no trouble at all for the jiva because it is free of its Isvara-given program, its vasana load.
Though the personal ego (the jiva’s sense of self and life story) dies with the Gross Body, as a function of the Subtle body the ego is not the jiva’s creation, it ‘belongs’ to Isvara, so the jiva can’t destroy it. But Self-knowledge can negate it which means disidentifying with the ego, which is why karma yoga is such an important practice to this end. When the ego is known to be just another object known to you, the eternal I, and is no longer in charge, suffering ends for you.
Vedanta advises taking a stand in Awareness as Awareness, which amounts to ‘clinging’ to the thought “I am limitless non-dual Awareness,” not to the ‘I sense’. Contemplation on this practice in the context of the satya/mithya teaching sets the inquirer free in so far as moksa is the discrimination between the Self and the ‘I sense.’ To say that moksa is discrimination implies that the ‘I sense’ is not a problem. The ‘I sense’ is like a ray of sunlight with reference to the sun itself. There is no contradiction. They share the same nature, light. So, when one’s discrimination is clear, the ‘I sense’ doesn’t ‘drop away;’ it continues to exist but that it is known to be mithya, not real, a paper tiger, a burnt rope.
Peter: To assert anything more than being/awareness doesn’t sit well with something here with this jiva as the thought “Self has no I or other in it” keeps recurring. So clearly, some clarity is needed or this “itch”, as Ramji puts it, would not come up.
P.S truly enjoy your postings.
Bless you and with Love
Sundari: The teachings of Vedanta are designed to create doubts, which it also answers. This one that came up for you is an important one, and I hope this teaching clears up the confusion.
Thank you for the feedback, much appreciated.
Much Love to you too
Sundari
