I’m so glad to see you again on the Sunday satsangs. I missed you! I hope you have recovered well from all that traveling!
James: Good to go!
I’ve been reading a commentary on Ramana’s UPDESHA SARAM. I could use a teacher’s wisdom with this.
I “heard” something in a different way. In my words, neither knowledge or ignorance has any affect on the object (human being) or what we authentically are. The battle of the light/dark is fought in the mind only and has no bearing whatsoever on what we are. Could you tease this out more?
James: Knowledge and ignorance affect human beings in ignorance. Human beings who have hard and fast Self knowledge are not affected by duality. The battle of light and dark does not affect the Self, unborn existence shining as ever-present ordinary bliss consciousness. It is associationless.
Is it that the SELF just totally accepts whatever the human object and mind is going through because it belongs to the domain of Ishvara
James: Yes, but “accepts” isn’t the right word because it implies agency. It is better to say that the Self is unaware of thoughts and feelings unless Isvara is present. Isvara is unaffected because it is the thoughts and feelings so there is no duality there. Only in duality does one thing affect another.
The absolute self, without Maya, is not involved at all in the phenomenal play?
James: Yes. It is not involved. Isvara isn’t absolute because it depends on the Self.
If so, why is it allowed – this battle of knowledge/ignorance? Why is SELF only the space on which the drama unfolds? (I have the image of the SELF watching TV on a Saturday night…LOL).
James: Because there are no other Selves. That’s what non-dual means. If there were more Selves we would have names for them. Look at your own experience. Are there two of you? If there are, which one is real?
How can it be completely passive and be completely, albeit, seemingly active, as Ishvara?
James: Because it is seemingly active as you point out. Seeming means it is as good as non-existent. Non-existent somethings are inactive.
So it is both.
James: Both are it in so far as both exist. But no, there are not two things in reality, unless one of them is a seeming thing, which means it is as good as non-existent. You might have to think about this a bit.
Not one or the other.
James: Yes. Now you’re onto something. It is a third factor because of which we know both. It is neither one or the other. It is unborn ordinary ever-present awareness….yourself.
I would find it so helpful if you would just teach a little around these concepts…if possible.
James: I’ve been teaching them every day. How about following my Reditt feed? These topics come up all the time. Thousands of people listen. You can join in the discussion. It’s quick and easy. I’m on one or two hours a day. Here is the link: https://www.reddit.com/user/JamesSwartzVedanta/
So in the SELF we are no things and in Ishvara, we are seeming all things.
James: Yes, we are not an object to be known. We are the unattached unaffected subject that knows.
So it seems like the keystone here is the MIND…it acts as the culprit here, the transformer so to speak. When we are focused on “our” mind, we believe the rope is a snake.
James: Yes.
When we focus on SELF, we just see an object. Okay?
James: Not Okay. You can’t focus on the Self because it is not an object of thought. But you can focus on the idea I am the Self, which will turn your attention away from the mind and you will notice the presence of yourself, awareness/consciousness. The trick is to identify the unseen presence as you.
So what about the objects (the rope) that is seen. That is not real either…Nothing is real, so no good/bad. Knowledge/ignorance. Yikes.
James: The Self, existence shining as awareness, is real, meaning unchanging and always present but yes, everything that comes and goes isn’t real.
My mind can’t seem to be comfortable with a totally dreamed existence. It’s way above my mind’s pay grade. Yet, I want to know. Can you shed some light on my confusion?
James: The mind is cheapskate and a debtor; it is living on borrowed awareness. It has to give it back when its karma runs out so it is always worried about death. But the lack of comfort is normal for it because it has been conditioned for 60 years to the belief that life and death are real. It seems your practice then is to get the mind comfortable. The easy way is to understand that what you’re experiencing is just a movie. Row Row Row your boat gently down the stream. Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream.” If the mind knows it’s not real, it settles down. So educate it: the joy is not in the object.
In Atma Bodh Shankaracharya says, “I (awareness) live without breathing.“
With love & gratitude,
CC
Love you, C!