This is an interesting satsang with a Self realized person for whom English is a second language and whose Self confidence came as across as arrogance when I first read it. So many spiritual people write me that are obviously suffering enlightenment sickness that I expected a defensive reaction from Ute when I gave her the reasons why what she said indicated that she didn’t know What she is. My mistake was understandable because English is her second language but I was pleasantly surprised to get a different response. The point, as you will see, is that one should not think one is enlightened or not enlightened. When the search for the Self is over, one should return to the simple person one was before it began. From then on, one should only be committed to learning as long as one lives. If not the mind, which needs noble work before, during and after enlightenment, will become bored, jaded and arrogant. I edited Ute’s word usage, not the content.
Hi again!
Thank you very much. I am very grateful for all the work you are doing. Otherwise Self knowledge would not be as easily accessible. I watched a lot of your videos, and I learned a lot. I also learned by discussing in forums regarding Vedanta. I realised That and I do know for sure what Brahman Satyam, Jagat Mithya and Jivo brahmaivo naparah means. I know this. without doubt, not like a person repeating E=MC12 in physics.
I wanted to see if my understanding was aligned with Vedanta and it did mostly but one of your teachers felt I was wrong saying that Only God is Real. I showed him a book by Swami Chinnmayananda where he said only God is Real and he agreed then. I know it is Brahman but Brahman is God, as Sat chit Ananda.
I think I might come across as not qualified to due to writing very much like I speak and also as a not native speaker but I have no problem understanding any of what I read so I cannot see how one with Moksha, is not qualified. Have you misunderstood me? I respect and understand what you say, but I have experience in explaining things to people with misconceptions. I feel there is not more to ask, but I feel like asking you about some things, since you know the teaching in such details.
I understand your message of going through the teaching from beginning to end to help others. I just wanted to clarify since I do not see how I am not qualified when I am having a mind without thoughts and know all of the universe is me. And me being eternally free of it. Things I can any way consider is how can anyone really know there will not be anymore sprouting of vasanas since there still are vasanas. Yet I do not see how I can reincarnate since everything is me. So it feels impossible. I know how to do karma yoga. I started 26 years ago not to work for the fruits of actions, when I first read the Bhagavadgita. This and bhakti has helped a lot until I realized being Sat chit ananda. I just wanted to clarify since I do not see how I am not qualified when I am having a mind without thoughts and know all of the universe is me.
James: The following statements indicate that you don’t understand What you are. Explain to me why you are concerned about the sprouting of vasanas if you are eternally free as you say, because vasanas aren’t real; they don’t have an effect on you, existence shining as pure Awareness/Bliss. The vasanas are mithya, as good as non-existent. So you are always free of them.
You are not a who, a Ute. Ute is a conceptual created entity seeking to understand the nature of reality. She is an object known to you. You never were that imaginary person. You are eternal unborn Existence shining as Awareness. Freedom is freedom from Ute, not freedom for Ute.
You can’t reincarnate because you are not incarnated now. You were never incarnated in the first place. You are unborn.
The confusion you have about What you are means that you are not qualified because a free being knows that qualifications have nothing to do with What one is. It’s not your fault; your intellect is not subtle enough yet to understand the teaching. Keep thinking. One day it will all make sense. Qualifications are mithya, apparently real, as good as non-existent. If you know What you are, you will know that you are neither free nor are you bound.
You’re stuck because you are stubborn and willful. You think you have it all figured out but it is false confidence, perhaps because you really want to be free, which is good. I am sure your mind will say “Yes, but…” and give me reasons why Vedanta is wrong. What I’ve said here is just the truth according to Vedanta. It has nothing to do with me.
Ute: I agree with all this. Thank you for your clarity. It is how it is, that is why I say I am free, not the body, it is just the body which I of course do not mean is myself, if you took me to assume the word I to be Ute. Ute is a name given to the body. I am not the body, I am That. Sat chit ananda is free of this body. It has never been within a body, my realization is that there is limitless consciousness which has no limitations at all. It is without form, and is what I am. That which I am is not born, and will not die. I definitely agree in that vasanas just appear. They are in no way attached to what I am. Stubborn yes, but not ignorant 🙂
It is true, there is not really reincarnation. Since the Self always has been, will always be, and impossibly can be “within” a body. It just seemed to be until I realized atman was Brahman some years ago, and that there was not any separation going on. Not from the world to Self, the manifested is not really different from That which is Satya. Or Real Of course, one will have to say differently in a teaching, but it is just Awareness, just manifest. It is advaita. It permeates everything, and is just like Krishna say in the Gita, like a threat holds together a necklace of pearls. “My” self, which is not mine but is just The Self is all that is.
Love Ute
James: OK. Good. Sorry to lecture you. It was my mistake owing to your use of English. It seems that you do know What you are but there is still a communication problem. How is anyone but you able to verify the truth of your words? Nobody but you has access to you. People only know you through your words. A person who doesn’t know they are Brahman will think you are crazy. You must have experienced that. Furthermore, the one who knows they are Brahman won’t think that they are free or not free because those words don’t apply to you, Brahman. Brahman is only free with reference to the idea that it is not-free. It is like the chicken and the egg. The egg is not free from the chicken and the chicken is not free from the egg. There are no eggs and chickens in Brahman. In your letter you must have assumed that I’m not Brahman. If you saw me as Brahman, then you would have made it clear who you really are. But you didn’t. You wrote the letter from the point of view of a not-free person. That is why I replied as I did. Nobody can read your mind to know what you know and what you don’t know. But we can make certain inferences, which are not always right.
I have been involved in the so-called “spiritual” world probably since before you were ware born. It is full of people who claim to be free but who obviously aren’t free because they take vasanas to be real. Your statement implied that the vasanas are real, that they have some connection with you, Awareness. They claim freedom because they think it is a special kind of status, something that distinguishes them from others or from themselves when they were “bound.” But freedom is freedom from the one who thinks it is free. If you are free you were always free. If you are free there are no others.
There is a good reason to claim that you are ever-free Awareness, but only if ever-free Awareness is tricked by Maya into thinking that it never not free. Can you see the problem? Because I am Brahman I see everyone as Brahman, until they tell me they are a person who knows Brahman. How can a person know Brahman? It is not an object of knowledge.
It seems you are writing me because you want teaching. Is that true? I don’t care if you are free or not free. I am only interested in what you know about yourself. If you are free and you want to teach people who don’t know what they are, then you need an impersonal time-tested method that has nothing to do with you either as a person or as Brahman. But before you teach them you need to make sure they are actually asking for teaching. A lot of so-called Self realized people want to teach because they want to gain the respect of others, owing to some defect in their character. If you respect yourself you aren’t interested in what people think of you.
If the desire to teach is coming from you, you need to be very careful not to claim it or you won’t be an effective teacher. In our tradition, there is only one teacher, Isvara, and the scripture is Isvara’s words. I’ve attached a copy of Vedanta commentaries on Kena Upanishad, which was written by Isvara. Please read it with an open mind. Don’t think you are free or not free. Just try to understand what it is saying. It was written to help people like you who claim they are free so they don’t give other people the wrong idea about What they are. Pay particular attention to the idea that the Self cannot be objectified and the following teaching about claiming. You didn’t make it clear who the “I” was to me although I am clear now. And, if you are what you say you are, then what do you want to know?
Love,James
Hi James.
Thank you very much for this, I agree it seems to be a communication problem. In a way I feel overly qualified to be a student. I am That and know it without doubt. I often understand when teachers are not understanding who they are. I have for instance experienced that they do not understand they are Life, but if saying Self is Life, they think I am wrong.. It is good to see Kena Upanishad say it as well. Self is the Life of life, this universe is an object, Life is what I am, all are, eternally.
James: Well, one is never over-qualified to be a student. One should always have an open mind. Self knowledge solves a temporary problem. Once you know who you are, you still have to live your life, so your mind should not have come to any conclusions. It needs to be curious and detached all the time so it can take advantage of the opportunities to grow that Isvara provides. Most of the spiritual teachers today are dead while living because they have come to the conclusion that they are “cooked.” But they are boring people, forced to chase in enlightenment what they chased in endarkenment. In life there is always something that is not known, elightened or not. It is the Isvara factor. When you appreciate it, you become simple and humble and innocent.
Ute: No I do not assume you are not Brahman, since the way you speak about Self makes me understand you are Brahman. As we all are, although most do not know they are. I am very happy for the Kena Upanishad you sent and that it is actually made to help people to express who one is without being misunderstood.
James: Yes. The student says, “I don’t say that I know and I don’t say that I don’t know.” It means he is something other than existence’s two primary categories, the known and the unknown.
Ute: I have no urge or desire or want to teach. I do not feel like teaching anyone who are not interested either, thank you, it is important not to. I just feel a responsibility, a duty, to be able to answer questions as adequately as possible, because if I go through the teaching, with a qualified enlightened teacher, I can better help them out. I do see that “people” who do not yet know that they are Brahman, who might have read a lot, do not understand that I know who I am, sure. I think they only would know if I were appearing as a teacher in a robe, and as you know, often not even then. Which you must experience a lot of. Even though you know the teaching very well. No one can really know if anyone is enlightened, sure. Only oneself knows. And many think they know who they are, without knowing. I do not feel to talk about being Self, since Self really is Silent. It has no need to say I am. Only the body/mind would want to speak about being That.
I just had to try to explain so you do not assume I do not understand any of this. Yes, the chicken and the egg allegory was good, it is the manifest and the unmanifest which is one, or rather not two. I will read the rest of the Upanishad and get back to you, and answer these questions, I got to get busy here now. Thank’s a lot!
Love Ute
James: Silence speaks, but words are good if the Self is speaking them. Love you, Ute.
