I think I may benefit from a teacher/guru. I visited you in Bend a long time ago. I’m the guy who broke your walking stick! After reading HTAE and immersing myself in every audio talk I could find, I had an “aha” moment and would have said that I “realized the self”. That said, in the past few years I have had some significant pain (physical and emotional) and would now have to say that there has been some apparent suffering and doubt.
All this to say that I would really appreciate some guidance in helping to remove what ever ignorance there may be in order to stay standing in awareness in the face of this apparent pain. (if I am making sense here. )
I have also carefully read the “What is Advaita Vedanta” page on the Shining World website and feel like I am pretty solid at least in my indirect knowledge, but again could use a loving consiglieri…
Dear John,
Aha, the guy who broke my walking stick! Now my chance for revenge. 🙂 Here is my (hopefully articulate) reply to your articulate email. It is just my cup of tea as it ticks all the knowledge and ignorance boxes.
Much love,
James
Crux (as I understand it)
The human condition is nothing more than an “identity crisis. I either take myself (erroneously) to be the experiencing entity whereby I buy into and live in the illusory world of maya with all its ups and downs OR I take myself (in reality) to be the SELF and know the truth of who I really am… in which… “game over”.
James: Yes, it is game over. More to come below.
Knowledge vs Blind Faith
It has occurred to me that there is a distinction between “knowledge” and “knowing”. Some consider “knowledge” to mean “accumulation of information” (ie. I have read up on and am skilled in auto mechanics, for instance) and “knowing” (ie. I have been running around looking for my glasses and someone pointed out that they are on top of my head. Now I “know” where they are and the looking has stopped)..
When I “know” something, there isn’t an actual experience, but rather the absence of seeking or curiosity.
I realize that Vedanta and inquiry are for the jiva, but since the jiva is an experiencing entity and will always look for an experience, I wonder if “knowing” myself as awareness, is, in a way, like blind faith. In other words, if enlightenment is freedom “from” experience, then there really can be no indication for the jiva that its “seeking” job is done, other than that there will be no more seeking (like “knowing” the glasses are on top of my head).
James: Most jivas always look for discrete experiences because they are ignorant of their nature as ever full ordinary awareness. The indication of freedom happens when the knowledge “I am unmodifiable awareness” is firm i.e. when seeking stops. When you understand that each and every experience is zero sum, meaning there is nothing to be gained or lost by it (such is the nature of samsara) the jiva develops a healthy contempt for discrete experiences and gains the confidence to dismiss fears and desires (which generate discrete experiences) as they arise in the mind.
Knowing or knowingness is the nature of awareness. It is present when your equipment (John) is waking, dreaming or sleeping. It is the “light” in which you, awareness, know what you know and know what you don’t.
Blissful Awareness
You have said many times that Self is blissful awareness. But doesn’t this make the jiva mind want to “look” for the experience of bliss during inquiry? I can sit here and stand in awareness as awareness, but I wouldn’t describe it as bliss, more like neutrality (not even comfortable neutrality since pain still exists (maybe apparently, but it still “seems” VERY real) just neutrality. This makes the jiva think it hasn’t “arrived” or that it’s doing inquiry wrong since it hasn’t realized a sense of blissful awareness. It would be so much easier to stay on track (doing inquiry) if there was at least some sort of sign that I was on track. When I do my mantras, a sort of “knowing” takes place (I live without breathing, for instance), but again, it’s not bliss, but just sort of a neutral field.
Since everything that exists (and everything that is experienceable) is the self (even though it’s just apparent or illusory), then that includes negative events including pain and suffering. How then, can SELF be described as blissful?
And, if I expect the SELF to be happy or blissful, wouldn’t that just be the jiva taking itself (erroneously) to be the emotional body? I’ve heard you also say “the SELF is not a feel good state”).
James: How can the Self be described as blissful is a good question, John. It actually can’t be described as blissful because bliss implies not-bliss or non-bliss, which is to say suffering. The Self is bliss, meaning whole and complete. When you know that the Self is being and identify as, not “with” it, you become aware of an ongoing unchanging feeling of uncaused satisfaction, which is just the “being experience,” because of which everyone desires to live one more day, irrespective of the nature of the discrete experiences that appear and disappear in you, awareness.
Vedanta is guilty of fudging the truth a bit. It uses the word blissful to modify the Self to encourage people who don’t know what it means to be the Self to seek it. Seeking it, however, doesn’t work “solo” to use your word. You need help from a qualified self-actualized teacher. He or she will point out that resting on your laurels as a Self knower/experiencer is not freedom. Freedom is the disappearance of doership that comes from committed nididyasana, the constant application of the teachings, supported by a contemplative lifestyle once you are absolutely convinced that you are awareness. I call it Self actualization.
Doing won’t disappear because Maya/Isvara continues to generate discrete experiences until the body dies. The doer doesn’t disappear because Isvara needs an agent(s) to manifest the world. But doership will disappear gradually because firm Self knowledge implies steady dispassion and gratitude, which slowly dissolves the feeling that you are generating karma. The process is so subtle that you might not even notice when you are free as awareness. You might still think of yourself as a doer responsible for karma until (usually) someone close to you remarks that you are not the person you appear to be.
Awakeness vs Awareness
In the waking state, I can do inquiry and I get a sense of “I am non dual awareness”. On my walks, I recite the mantras and I look ahead of me and “get” that I am other than the body (for instance).. Other than that my seeking has stopped, that is the only indication that I am “on track”.. BUT, when I am preoccupied, sleeping or in severe pain (emotional or physical), there doesn’t seem to be access to even “attempt” inquiry. There is just this extreme “gravitational pull” towards ignorance.
So, when I get that “sense” of “I am non dual awareness”, is that really just “awakeness” that I am aware of? I guess that if I am “aware” of it then it IS “awakeness”, but what do I do with this info? And then I tell myself that I am really NOT the self (doubt and ignorance, I realize)…
James: Yes, it is “awakeness. The operative word is “of” in the sentence, “I get that “sense” of “I am non dual awareness.” It implies the presence of a second experiencing entity. There is only one experiencing entity and it is completely unique in the sense that, unlike the Self ignorant experiencer is it not modified an iota by experience, positive or negative. That is the meaning of freedom. You, awareness, are free of your equipment, which is subject to change.
Rote
My way of doing inquiry is to discriminate between SELF (me) from the objects occurring in me, dispassion (realizing that objects are not real and that they only appear as real), running my mantras (I am non dual, pure awareness etc..) and doing the yogas (Karma, Bhakti, Jnana).. I also feel that I have had a burning desire for liberation for most of my adult life.. I try and do this every day, but sometimes it just seems like I have memorized the words and it becomes rote. I try and use the inquiry as a gateway to “stand in awareness as awareness”, but I guess it’s like the firefly state where sometimes a neutral field occurs and sometimes I am aware of just reciting the words.
James: The last doing to go is “spiritual” doing. Ironically, in the Self actualization phase you continue to do your sadhanas but the need to do them gradually abates as your confidence in your unborn wholeness increases. Maybe the feeling that spirituality is rote means that you are finally assimilating the knowledge “I am unborn whole and complete bliss (not blissful) awareness.
Inquiry In The Face Of Pain
All of the above methods of inquiry seem to be inaccessible when I am in pain (physical/mental), preoccupied during my day or asleep. Especially pain. I have had acute migraines and moments of fear/stress etc.. when there was only pain occurring and no apparent access to inquiry. Once, I was stressing over a work related concern and I couldn’t sleep. I ran my inquiry over and over, but extreme suffering was occurring. No matter how much I tried to stand in awareness or run inquiry, all that was present was pain. This happens during headaches also.
James: Yes, pain extroverts the mind which “seemingly” hides the Self. But the Self is never hidden by experience, no matter how painful. It is the “you” that is aware of what is happening, no matter how divine or demonic.
Have I Arrived?
I’ve heard it mentioned that the shift from the jivas point of view to the SELF’s is subtle and that since it’s difficult to articulate that shift in language that is understandable, then often it comes across as the egos experience of an object (in which case I am back to identifying with the jiva). That said, I continue to wonder if I have “arrived” (especially since the awareness is often described as “happiness and bliss” which is not ongoingly apparent to me and it seems like I am mostly just an ordinary jiva. My desires have waned and I don’t seek anymore (other than my drive to do inquiry… is this seeking?), but I wouldn’t say that suffering has disappeared?
James: Maybe. I suggested that possibility above before I read this paragraph. The answer to this question hinges on the meaning of the word “I.” Does it refer to awareness or to John, the non-eternal experiencing entity.
Location of feeling
When I recite the mantra “I live without breathing”, this takes me to a place where I stand as awareness and watch the breath go in and out. However, much like acute pain, the location of these feelings (breath, pain etc..) is so “local” (front and center), that it is extremely difficult to buy into the idea that “I am that which observes” the breathing and pain.
James: This paragraph suggests that you haven’t arrived because you, awareness, can’t be “taken” anywhere. You don’t come and go. You are that in which experiences come and go. You are right that you might benefit from a few words from a guru. I’ve done my best. Let me know if this satsang is helpful.
