Question: What I was trying to convey was that I could not understand what Mr. Swartz was saying when he said that ‘objects seem to be out there but are not really located where they seem to be’ on page 12 of The Essence of Enlightenment. After doing some experiments in the other book ‘The Direct Path’ and rereading the para in ‘Definition of Real’ in ‘The Essence of Enlightenment’, I understood what Mr. James was saying. I do not know what caused the understanding. Because of the experiments or due to break in reading and rereading the words of Mr. Swartz. Honestly, I do not know for sure.
Sundari: What caused the understanding was the assimilation of knowledge in a purified mind. That happens by the grace of Isvara when the inquirer is qualified.
Question: My reading of Mr. Goode’s book was for the limited purpose of understanding what was meant by ‘objects seem to be out there but are not really located where they seem to be’. Once this point was understood by me, I continue to read and contemplate on the teaching of Vedanta as given in the book ‘The Essence of Enlightenment’. I am not reading Goode ‘s book. I am not jumping from one teaching to another now, which was my practice earlier. The only qualification that is missing at present is a teacher in a conventional sense i.e., meeting a teacher in person.
Sundari: I am happy to hear that you are on board as a committed inquirer with the requisite qualifications. However, meeting a teacher in person is not one of them. If the teacher is truly qualified, and the inquirer is also qualified and dedicated to the scripture, a remote teacher can do the job of guiding the inquiry perfectly well. Whether we are with you in person or connecting via technology, the knowledge is wielded in the same way. It is the Self addressing you, not a person and we see you as the Self, as non-different. Vedanta is a teaching tradition based on friendship and equality. If the inquirer is prepared and qualified and following the methodology of self-inquiry as laid out in the teachings, Self-knowledge will do “the work” of removing ignorance. We are here to help you with any questions and doubts that arise, but we cannot remove your ignorance. Only Isvara can do so. James and I have taught thousands of people around the world and helped many find moksha, most of whom we never meet. If you have the opportunity to spend time with a qualified teacher then take it. But remember that there is no real boundary between you and the guru. Guru literally means one who dispels the darkness and in doing so, reveals that the Self is the only guru, because this is a non-dual reality.
Though you say that knowledge has assimilated on the location of objects teaching, it will not hurt to read the following satsang on the topic as it fleshes it out.
Satsang on the Location of Objects Teaching
This is not an easy teaching to assimilate. All the teachings in Vedanta are challenging at first because the mind is entrained to think from the point of view of duality. Vedanta, nonduality, is totally counter-intuitive from the point of view of duality. I.e., if you are identified with the body/mind and believe that you are separate from everything around you. Under the hypnosis of duality, the mind relies on sensory information to understand the world and the information presented to it on a moment-to-moment basis because the body is your point of reference. Without Self-knowledge, the senses take duality literally, as fact, because Maya deludes them. What could seemingly be more logical than to assume that an object appearing to you has a real existence in its own right, is separate from and independent of you? To investigate if that is true, we must first ask what is an object?
Vedanta says that an object is anything known to you, either subtle like a thought or a feeling, or gross, like your body or a pen. Anything known to you cannot be you. OK, fair enough. So, if I am not the object, then where do objects come from? Why does it seem like there is a separation between me and the object, a subject/object split? It is a seeming split, a projection caused by the delusion of Maya, and ultimately, dissolves into Consciousness upon inquiry. As this is a non-dual reality, objects can only originate from you, Consciousness, that which is always present and unchanging, also called satya. Discrimination comes in when the knowledge assimilates that while objects exist and you can experience them, they are mithya, meaning not always present and always changing, apparently, not actually, real. However, not separate from you. You as Consciousness indirectly cause the objects to appear, but you are free of all objects.
To begin with, it is important to understand the three ways that Maya deludes, and although all three terms are subtle and quite similar, it helps to know the subtle distinctions:
1. Viparaya: The reversal that Maya imposes on the mind resulting in the erroneous cognition of reality as a duality–the snake is taken to be the rope.
2: Adhyaropa is the super-imposition of duality onto non-duality caused by viparaya, which makes the changeless appear to be changing. There are two types of superimposition.
i.) Unconditioned superimposition is where the jiva is completely under the spell of Maya, duality (samsari).
ii.) Conditioned superimposition is where avidya or personal ignorance has been removed by Self-knowledge, so the imposition of duality onto nonduality is known to be false, a trick of Maya. In both cases, duality (the snake) is there. The samsari takes it to be real, and the jnani knows it is just a mirage and is never again deluded by Maya. Therefore, you can equate moksa with the removal of viparaya and unconditioned adhyaropa.
3. Uphadi: A limiting adjunct—that which makes something appear to be something other than it is. For instance, if I have a red rose behind a clear crystal, the clear crystal will appear to be red even though it is clear. Put it this way: the uphadi for the Self/Awareness (or what we can also call perception) is the person—the individual jiva or self under the spell of ignorance. It makes the Self look like it is a jiva. However, what belongs to the person does not belong to the Self because the person and Awareness do not exist in the same order of reality. The Self is satya and the jiva is in mithya.
Question: Would it be true to say that a pen in a hand is really just me, when I know the contents of this pen to actually be me there still seems to be a name and a form, is this name and form me as well, or should I negate it? It was my understanding that duality does not stop appearing once the Self is known to be my nature, is this discrimination?
Sundari: Yes, this is discriminating the objects that appear in you—Awareness—from you. You are formless nameless Awareness with no qualities, and the pen (name and form) is you and has qualities, but you are not the pen. This is the essence of the location of objects teaching, and it is one of the foundation teachings in Vedanta.
Question: How can I recognize something without qualities? It seems that I can only understand who I am by inference – by negating everything, so I am that which is left after negation.
Sundari: This is correct, but inference is not the only way, though it is a valid means of knowledge. The Vedanta pramana also uses the pure logic of deduction to unfold the truth that Awareness is your true identity. See if this isn’t true. If you are looking at a table, the table exists in your mind even though it has a seemingly solid existence outside of it. When you are not thinking of the table it ceases to exist for you. It is the same with the feelings or thoughts that you have, both are just Awareness appearing as thoughts or feelings in your mind. So, you and what you see are non-different; you and what you think are non-different.
Maya is a power in Awareness that makes it look like the seer, you, and what you see are separate. It is tricking you. The subject/object split is only a belief, based on a false perception of objects. See if you can find an object that is not made out of your thoughts. Then see if your thoughts are made out of anything other than you, Awareness. Everything you experience is coming out of you. Can you find any other place where you are experiencing things except in you? No, you cannot.
All objects are you because reality is non-dual. But the objects have a dependent existence on you whereas you are always free of the objects. Awareness exists regardless of the presence or absence of objects. Take the ocean and the wave: both have a dependent existence on water, but water is free of the ocean and the wave. If you don’t know what non-duality means i.e., you do not know you are Awareness, you will think that you are a person seeking moksha. If you are a person seeking moksha you will be attached to certain objects including the idea that you are seeking moksha. So, you need to break your attachment by understanding that the objects exist within the scope of Awareness (you) but are not you.
It is not obvious that objects are not you when you are ignorant of your nature as Awareness because you need them to make you feel secure or to validate your identity. Self-inquiry into the true nature of objects helps to free the mind from a dependence on objects for happiness because you understand that they have no inherent value. You are what validates everything. We say that Self-knowledge is always good because it is that which you cannot negate. In other words, it is always true and always present. Once you have negated all the objects, then you can investigate Awareness, which is left over because you cannot negate Awareness.
To recap: All objects dissolve into me, Awareness, because they are only ever experienced in my mind—and nowhere else. Duality makes an object appear to be separate from and other than me, but nonetheless, every object is a thought appearing in my mind. You verify this by investigating any object. You see that every object is made out of thought and thought is made out of energy and energy is made out of Awareness and is non-separate from you, Awareness.
You could ask: “How can every object be made out of thought?” the answer is in understanding the relationship between 1) Pure Awareness, 2) Pure Awareness in its role as Creator—Isvara, 3) the jiva or individual and 4) jagat, the world. We always start from the fact that everything is Awareness. So, everything associated with Isvara and Jiva is Awareness. But Isvara does not see the creation the same way jiva sees it. Isvara only ever sees creation as itself in the form of knowledge, either in a form as in gross material objects, or formless as in subtle objects (thoughts/feelings). Isvara creates in such a way that to a Jiva under the spell of ignorance everything seems as if it is not me—meaning, it seems ‘other than’ me, so I take myself to be a body/mind. When Jiva identifies with the body, the material world seems to be solid and substantial, ‘out there,’ standing alone. It is not ‘out there’, and it does not stand alone. Unless you assume that you are the body, then the objects are out there—for you.
When you analyse sensory perception i.e., experience, you see the truth of the statement that all material objects and the sensations invoked by them are in fact made up of thoughts conveying knowledge of the objects. You see a tree, and you know a tree. You never jump out of your body and experience the tree. The tree appears in you. You never jump out of yourself, Awareness, and experience your body either. It appears as an object, like a tree, in you, because it is in the same order of reality as the tree. It is gross matter, mithya. So, what is the experience/knowledge actually made of? Does it float in from some outside source, some parallel universe, and present itself to you? It does not. It arises in you. It is created by Isvara/Maya out of you, Awareness, yourself. We can leave the individual jiva out of it. There is just you, Awareness, and the objects appearing in you.
You can also arrive at the same conclusion by an analysis of the objects themselves. It should be easy to see that thoughts are made of Awareness. It is not so easy to see the physical objects are made of Awareness, but if we investigate matter scientifically, it breaks down into particles and space and the knower of particles and space i.e., you, Awareness. Material science cannot make the obvious connection between matter and Awareness because it relies on perception and inference as a means of knowledge. It does not realize that perception is an object known to Awareness in the form of the scientist and that perception is Awareness.
Maya makes it seem as if Awareness is an object when it is actually the subject. Maya also makes the individual jiva think that it is a unique entity, separate from all other entities and objects. But Jiva is not what it seems either. Jiva is really Awareness—appearing as matter. So, the relationship between the three seemingly separate factors Jiva/jagat, Isvara/Maya (which creates the material world out of Awareness), and pure Awareness—i.e., you –needs to be understood to assimilate the meaning of the location of objects teaching.
You have only experienced the objects that appear to you at any moment and these objects are not separate from the thoughts that make them up. The whole creation, like any object, is only an idea, a thought. When that thought appears in you, the mind imagines the totality of objects by inference, but those objects are never directly experienced. No object can be directly experienced. We can only experience the qualities of an object, not the object itself. All that is directly experienced is you, Awareness. The only issue left to resolve is whether or not Awareness or matter is primary. Which came first? When we use the world ‘first’ we mean which stands alone? Does matter exist prior to Awareness so that we can still have matter without Awareness? No. You cannot separate an object from the Awareness of the object. In other words, objects are not conscious. They do not know themselves or other objects.
Finally, you cannot get something out of nothing. So, if matter depends on Awareness, it must come from Awareness. The effect (matter) is just an apparent transformation of the cause, Awareness. It is not an actual transformation because if it were, Awareness would have lost its limitless nature when it transformed into matter. It would have become limited, bound by time and space.
There are two types of changes that take place with regards to things in form.
The first change or parinama is when something changes state from one thing to another, such as when milk becomes cheese. This process cannot be reversed and is permanent. Of course, in the bigger picture nothing in the apparent reality is permanent because mithya is not real, but for the purpose of understanding how this reality functions, it is important to understand the difference between this change and vivarta parinama.
Vivarta parinama, the second change, is an apparent change, where Consciousness (satya) seems to appear as the material creation, the world of name and form. But as stated, the material creation is a projection, it is only apparently real. Consciousness, being non-dual and therefore incapable of change, never actually becomes the creation because as stated, if it did, its nature as Consciousness would no longer be non-dual and there would thus be no way out of duality. The difference between the two parinamas is purely a technical issue in the investigation of how reality functions for the purpose of discriminating between satya and mithya, but it is important. As Awareness has no qualities, it never changes form nor takes any form. Forms (objects) appear when Maya appears and with it, the creation.
Many people ask: ‘if objects are not aware how can they BE Awareness? Maya creates matter out of Awareness—Subtle and Gross bodies. The Subtle body is born of sattva and is capable of reflecting the light of Awareness—which illumines the gross objects through the senses. It is given the power to know and experience by Awareness, so it seems sentient, but actually, it is not.
The Gross body is born of tamas, the five elements, the existence or substance ‘aspect’ of Awareness (Awareness has no aspects but we use the term here to explain a point). Gross objects have no ability to reflect the light of Awareness because tamas absorbs light and so they do not reveal themselves as Awareness. Maya makes Awareness seem like it is both sentient, as in the Subtle body, and inert, like the Gross body. But it is neither. It is the knower of both. Awareness only becomes conscious (as we define the term) when there is something for it to be conscious of—i.e., matter, or the creation—in other words, when Maya appears.
Although all objects are you—Awareness, you are not the objects because no object is aware. Awareness IS what it sees. Sees means knows. Awareness, the subject, is not an object so it cannot be known by an object because an object is not conscious. Think of the spider’s web; although it originates from the spider and is made up of the spider, it does not know the spider because the web is not conscious.
Awareness is that which knows all objects, the ‘transparent’ or non-experiencing witness. Awareness does not need anything to know itself because it is self-knowing; we say Awareness is self-illuminating. It is always a witness, but a witness that never conditions to what it witnesses, unlike the experiencing entity or individual. Awareness is a witness only with reference to whatever is seen. Remember that non-dual means just that: The Self is a seer that never began or ceases and is the ‘all-seeing-eye’ or “I” that sees only itself because that is all there is to see. Not that Awareness is a seer in the way the jiva (person) understands seeing. The person (Subtle Body) is the lens through which Awareness apparently looks at objects but seeing as all objects are reflected Awareness and thus have a dependent existence on Awareness, there are no objects for Awareness to see. Even the experience of Awareness in a purified mind is an object known to Awareness.
It would be more appropriate to say that the self, seeing only itself, is that which knows the seer with reference to the seen only when Maya is operating. The Self-aware self appears as a seer; but it never actually is a seer, unless seeing refers to its own self. From the perspective of duality or the person who is identified with being a person, i.e. when ignorance is operating, the jiva thinks that the seer is different from the seen. In other words, that the subject and object are different. They are not different, although they exist in different orders of reality: Awareness, that which is real and reflected Awareness, that which is apparently real.
The logical approach to non-duality as a means to explain the creation, while useful, breaks down (from the jiva perspective) when it comes to the analysis of the cause of the universe. Deductive reasoning will only get you so far because the only means of knowledge available for it are the senses (perception and inference), which without Self-knowledge, are mithya and are stuck in mithya. To say that the Self is the uncaused cause of everything does not make sense to the average person. The difficulty modern science has in understanding the origin of the universe is a good example of this. It can reason up to the point where it understands that there must be a moment when the creation began—but it cannot tell us what happened at the point of creation or before it began. Quantum physics, the most advanced theory in physics to date, cannot go beyond the Big Bang. The reason for this is that non-duality—or a singularity, which is what science calls non-duality—is a state (it’s not a state but I use the term here advisedly) from which there is no information from which to reason. If it’s non-dual there are no objects. Science will be stuck at this point until it understands what Awareness is—which it won’t, unless Self-knowledge removes ignorance for the scientist.
Vedanta is difficult to assimilate, hence the requirements for self-inquiry. Non-duality, Awareness, is not an object of knowledge and cannot be known by the means at our disposal, sensory perception and inference. It is far too subtle and can only be known through a valid means of knowledge for Awareness, Vedanta, which is capable of removing the ignorance standing in the way of understanding. Understanding Maya is the key, and it is probably the most difficult concept to assimilate because it seems so contradictory.
Many inquirers get stuck with the location of objects question, insisting there must be a more satisfactory answer to the “why” there is a creation at all. There isn’t an answer in the apparent reality. It is impossible to understand this because the one asking the question is in Maya—duality. Understanding only takes place when you can step out of Maya when non-dual vision is firm and has removed the illusion of duality. Then there is no need for an answer to ‘why’. Not that duality (ignorance) disappears when you know what it is; the mind is just not deluded by it anymore. As you correctly point out, ignorance is only a problem when you take it to be real—i.e. to be knowledge. There are apparent contradictions in the teachings which are not real contradictions and dissolve in the logic of the teachings. However, they are not easy to understand, which is why you need a teacher.
Om and prem
Sundari
