Thank you so much for the reply and the bonus of hearing the crystal clear explanation in the Satsang a few weeks ago on the intellect, the mind and the subtle body. This was a true gift that left my mind breathless if such a thing is possible. It was like unravelling in exquisite detail the operations in reflected consciousness.
Today I also caught up on the Satsang yesterday and was saddened by the buffeting James had to endure from the enquirer who just could not take on board the fact that the ego does not need to be eradicated. At a fundamental level there is nothing “spiritual” about this phenomena.
Sundari: You are always welcome – it’s a pleasure to share these teachings with you. James did not take a buffeting, this kind of thing is par for the course when addressing ignorance. You can take a horse to water but you cannot make them drink.
Mark: To quote Robert Redford in Spy Game: “He got to the top of the mountain then didn’t like the view” or probably better, Apollonius of Tyana in the Fortune Teller Scene https://youtu.be/hta0ndC7Dqw.
There are many possible reactions from the Jiva to this reflection, the mirror of the Self. In the scene, a different mind / intellect may see this and in recognition say “yes, that’s about it, thank you”. In this different [imaginary] scene, would the lady be “enlightened?” – no, but unlike the film scene, her mind would not drag her out of the tent, the binding vasanas “pulling” her out because the dissonance in the mind, without a clear intellect based in knowledge is too much at that time.
This is no different to almost any engagement every day – big or small. I have seen “me” sign up for relationships and discovered when “getting there” it was not what “I” wanted, because I did not yet understand and practice Karma Yoga and then just jumped right back in and repeated it all over again. The same with jobs; throwing myself at immovable walls of time, politics or money. And even spiritual crusades with the Jiva going a long way for apparently nothing, the “actuals” versus “forecast” as accounts would put it not quite matching! as far as the Jiva sees it. Like the lady in the fortune teller scene “what’s the point of living if there is going to be no more [fill in the desires]”.
Sundari: Well put, and yes indeed. Reality as in mithya never lives up to expectations, even at the best of times. That is why it’s more fun to anticipate and chase a result than getting what you want. You get rid of the ‘wanter’ for a short while, and it’s great for such a very short time, and then? You are still you, an ego looking for fulfillment. Zero Sum.
Mark: But Vedanta says something else – each encounter is a blessing. With the scripture we take stock in the presence of skilled teachers of all these moments. We find ourselves on a bus untouched. Every merry go round at the point of getting to the destinations was a jump off point “all this has happened before and it will happen again” (Battlestar Galactica, sorry for the Sci-Fi reference) – or much better as James puts it, the only freedom is freedom from the Jiva.
Sundari: Amen
Mark: The lady might sit there facing a future fortune teller, having then seen enough scenes in her own life, with enough variance for the intellect to peer through the fog and discriminate all this has happened before and even though it looked like a different man, a different piece of land now she as the mind+intellect takes a stand in awareness to see herself as the Self, watching the Jiva tell its story; the Fortune Teller the Self, reflecting the Jiva’s current journey. Both would probably then have a tea afterward and reflect “it’s an amazing thing!”
Sundari: Yes, except that the Self is not a fortune teller, just the impartial witness for which nothing ever happens, moves, changes, comes or goes. The Self would not or could not ‘foretell’ the future because for it there is no time, no past present or future. Though the jiva can never be omniscient because it is not Isvara, it is true that nondual knowledge gives you, the jiva who knows it is the Self, 20/20 vision into how and what is going down in the apparent reality. And to wise up to and negate what keeps you stuck on replay as the jiva.
Mark: In every case Isvara taught me with a lot of patience and grace that this is not the way and lets me know like the proverbial old man in the village with a pipe watching me return to the same point again “ok we can keep doing this literally forever, the rules are the rules, I have no influence over them neither do you (both Isvara and the Jiva). See you again in ten years. If you want to stop and have tea with me I’ll be here but it looks like you need to be somewhere or get something first…”
Sundari: Isvara has no problem with ignorance because it is actually the Self, nothing opposes it. Satya and mithya never meet because they are in different orders of reality. The jiva continuing with the charade of duality, even with all the suffering that causes for it, is nothing but a dream with no substance. Isvara will facilitate the jiva’s karma because that is the way mithya works, but it cannot see the jiva as anything other than the Self because reality is nondual.
Mark: I as Jiva am stuck in adharma making more of the same or fluid in dharma but still not free as the Jiva and this is fine, it will never be free. Thank you so much for all you and James do, it is such a blessing.
Sundari: It’s only when avidya is present that the jiva (the Self APPARENTLY under the spell of ignorance) as a conceptual body/mind entity can never be perfect or free. The jiva shares the same identity as Isvara (though not Isvara’s powers) and is really the Self. As such, the Self is perfect and never bound, so freedom is actually its true nature, not something it can gain. Like clouds that cover the sun, when nondual knowledge assimilates and removes avidya, the freedom that was always there shines as brightly as it ever did when it was seemingly covered up by Maya.
You have a great touch with words, and what makes them worth hearing is that behind them is knowledge and experience. More importantly, the knowledge gained from the observation of your (read everyone’s) unexamined experience – that of the Self, and how the jiva’s experience stacks up with reference to it. Not the other way around – which is what really matters!
Vedanta is the nondual logic of existence, there is not much more one needs to know than that. But to assimilate and apply the nondual logic, now that’s another story. No matter how refined one’s thinking is in terms of mithya, it is still stuck in mithya. What is missing from one’s nondual assimilation will always trip you up – especially when you don’t know what you don’t know, or what’s missing. And what most inquirers don’t realize is that almost everyone tries to impose satya onto mithya, which never works. One must first pick apart mithya to negate it, and that’s the tricky part.
Just look at what quantum physics points to – the nondual logic is really all there. But without qualification and a means of knowledge capable of unfolding what nonduality means, QS will never explain what Consciousness is. Even though it is Consciousness that makes the inapprehension of itself possible! What a blast Maya is.
There is a saying in the scientific world (attributed to Nils Bohr) that if you are not shocked by quantum physics, you have not understood it. Well, it’s the same with nonduality. If you are not shocked that you could have been so duped by duality/Maya, then you have not understood nonduality. It is such a seemingly small, shiftless shift, yet so huge, and so elusive for most.
Pertaining to a previous discussion we had on the pitfalls of AI – the biggest problem it causes (and why it is a dangerous tool when used by someone who doesn’t have a full grasp of nonduality) is that it is so clever and efficient, but it doesn’t and never will ‘know’ the difference between ignorance and knowledge. It will never be able to correct or guide your inquiry when it is going off track into duality. There is no way to avoid the hard work of self-inquiry, though the ego hates to hear this. It always looks for short cuts and what’s easy. But there is no easy if moksa is what you are after.
We are much aided in terms of a better life experience just having some uncommon common sense, following dharma and practicing entry level karma yoga. But it’s not freedom from and for the jiva. As was discussed in our satsang a few Sundays’ ago, to assimilate that you are the Self requires the complete collapse of the reality of the field, which includes the ego. And as the field will not disappear even then, to live spontaneously as the Self requires making peace with the both/and of the apparent reality/ego. Not easy, but definitely possible with the assimilation of nonduality and firm Self-knowledge.
How wonderful it is to know, that regardless of any of this, you are never not the Self, and the ‘steps to “get there” are the qualities of being there’. I have no doubt that with the constant application of Self-knowledge to your every moment life experiences, life will be met with the total surrender that comes with that knowledge.
Much love
Sundari
