Thank you very much for your reply. I have some follow-up questions if that would be okay because there’s still confusion. I know I’m getting really nit-picky, but that’s where I’m at.
Sundari: Good for you, you need to be nit-picky if you are serious about self-inquiry.
Sarah: So, pure Awareness seeing (being the seer) is aware OF thought, feelings, objects?
Sundari: Yes. I know it sounds confusing; it is difficult to see (perceive) from a nondual perspective because duality is so tenacious and persuasive. Whenever an inquirer gets stuck it is usually because there is a shift in perspective required from the jiva to the Self; the inquirer is seeing non-duality through duality or imposing duality onto non-duality. Neither works, but it takes dedicated inquiry for Self-knowledge to bring about that switch.
There is only one Awareness aware of everything, always. It’s the only option because reality is non-dual, all appearances to the contrary notwithstanding. There are not two ‘Awarenesses’, or ‘individual Awarenesses, as stated previously. Awareness makes knowing possible for the jiva, and everyone is aware in the same way, either under the spell of Maya or not. Whether you know who you are or not, everyone experiences more or less the same thoughts and feelings because all three gunas churn out the same predictable emotional/thinking patterns. The only difference will be how the mind is programmed by the gunas.
As I said in our previous exchange, we need to differentiate between how and what Awareness knows and what jiva knows for the purpose of negating the conceptual jiva because it is not real. It hinges on this statement: When Maya is operating, there are apparent objects to be known. The implication here is of course, that Maya is not always operating, which means: it is not real. The definition of real being that which is always present and unchanging, and it applies only to the one non-negatable factor: Awareness.
Maya is a power in Awareness either manifest or unmanifest. When it manifests, the mind (objects) appears, and Maya makes the impossible possible: the Self apparently under the spell of ignorance (jiva) identifies with objects and believes itself to be separate and incomplete. The jiva knows the objects it has contact with because the light of Awareness is shining on the mind, but it does not realize this; it is identified with the body/mind. Yet, the Self does not have a mind and does not need to know anything because Maya creates a dream world. IT IS NOT REAL. Nothing more than a mirage appearing in Awareness thanks to the power of Maya.
Sarah: As Isvara? If so, how does that work? In other words, when discrimination happens and there’s seeing of the thoughts in the mind, is that me, as Isvara (awareness + maya) or pure awareness? If pure awareness how is that possible, when I thought it saw only itself?
Sundari: I am glad you got to this, good for you. Yes, Isvara is really the only knower of objects. Isvara is you, pure Awareness, wielding Maya. When you know anything, it is the knowing function operating in the field of Existence, which is Isvara, out-picturing in ‘your’ mind through its own guna profile, which is why it feels personal. It is not. Nothing is personal in mithya. Understanding Maya/Isvara is the hardest part of self-inquiry, and it is the key to moksa.
Main point repeat: We are looking at how mithya (the apparent reality) functions for the sole purpose of negating it. In light of that, remember what I said right at the beginning of my last email to you:
The non-experiencing witness is the non-dual Self, but it functions in two ways:
1. As the opaque witness or jiva/individual (saguna brahman – with qualities), which is the mind/ego watching itself and identified with its thoughts/feelings. Isvara is also known as saguna brahman because it operates Maya (the gunas), but unlike the jiva, it is never deluded by them. When tamas and rajas arise in saguna brahman, then Awareness apparently becomes a jiva and is deluded by Maya. Emphasis on ‘apparently’.
2. The transparent witness (without qualities – nirguna brahman) is the Self, pure Awareness. The Self is the impersonal seer that never began or ceases, the all-seeing eye or “I” that sees only itself because there are no objects (experiences/thoughts/feelings) for it to see. It is unconditioned and self-effulgent as there is nothing but itself. Nothing touches the Self.
Sarah: You said: ” Self/Awareness does not know anything because it does not modify to experience.” This seems to be saying pure awareness can’t be a knower either?
Sundari: Correct. See above. What is there to know if there is only you? There is nothing much else to know about the Self other than that you are whole and complete and need nothing to make you happy. You are the sought. Yet nonduality is not opposed to duality. In fact, it has no problem with duality as Self-knowledge takes the pain out of the equation and makes duality fun for the jiva.
Though there is only the Self, and everything is me, but I am not it, (meaning everything is a reflection of me but I am not the reflection) how sweet it is to hold and touch those we love, to feel moved by beauty or truth, saddened by injustice, to enjoy a good meal, to make love, to revel in a sunset, smell the earth after the rain…
None of this would be possible without Maya. Life is an amazing gift! But how terrible it is to be under the hypnosis of duality and to believe I am incomplete, that I need to chase and hold onto objects/experience to make myself happy and secure, to always be terrified of losing what I have and under the whip of desire, never satisfied…That is bondage and suffering. In this way, duality is brutally cruel indeed.
Sarah: You said: “When the gunas manifest, pure Awareness operating Maya in the ‘role’ of the Creator, meaning Isvara, knows the world – the reflected medium – because Isvara is conscious. Why? Because with the appearance of Maya there is something to be conscious of – an apparent creation, the reflected medium. Isvara (Pure Awareness wielding Maya) is in fact, the only knower.”
So, is this the crux of the whole thing right here? If so, how is it working? Meaning, when I know myself as the seer/knower, then I in fact am seeing as Isvara?
Sundari: Yes. Got it in one. Isvara is the Self Sarah, no other option. See above. Isvara and Jiva are both eternal principles in Awareness, and there is essentially no difference between them other than in their capacity to create. Isvara creates the objective world (field of Experience) and Jiva creates only its subjective world. They both appear to be conscious because Consciousness is the common denominator, which is why Vedanta says they are ‘essentially’ the same. If this is true, then we can eliminate both jiva and Isvara as real and take ourselves to be Consciousness.
Consciousness…me…is never affected by Isvara’s creation or by jiva’s creation. It is the knower of both.
Sarah: Also, removing ignorance is in the mind, is my understanding, therefore the taking a stand as awareness is also for the mind, because it is thought that is identified with the Jiva, correct? So, although it happens in the mind, we say Enlightenment is not for the Jiva, it’s “from” the jiva, because the mind recognizes it’s true identity is awareness and no longer identified with jiva. Is that right?
Sundari: All knowing – perception and inference – (which includes hearing, seeing, tasting, touching, smelling) happens in the mind because all experience takes place there. Consciousness is not an object of perception so cannot be known by these means. It can only be known through Self-knowledge, by analyzing the relationship between the name and form of an object and Consciousness, which is what self-inquiry is fundamentally all about.
The mind is another word for the CONCEPTUAL jiva. You are right, this jiva is just a thought wrongly identified with objects (experience) and suffers as a result. “Enlightenment” is not an object to obtain, it is simply removing the identification, the ignorance. Everyone is enlightened because everyone is the Self, whether they know it or not.
Please note though: it is not the mind that recognizes its true identity, though the intellect is involved in self-inquiry because thinking is required for self-inquiry, and pretty tough thinking too. But the mind (and intellect) is inert, it cannot ‘realize’ anything. The removal of ignorance is a function of Self-knowledge ALONE scouring the mind of ignorance allowing for a pure reflection of who you are to appear in a purified mind. But that reflection of the Self is just a reflection. The mind is an object known to you.
You are not the reflection, though it comes from you. Just as your reflection in a mirror is true to you but not you. You, the Self, are present whether or not the mind (reflected medium) is present, purified or not. This is explained in the three states teaching, awake, dreaming, and deep sleep. In deep sleep, the mind is not present, it is subsumed into the Causal body, yet Awareness had to be there, or you would never wake up, and you would not know that you slept when you woke up.
Sarah: You said: Unless the jiva construct is fully understood in light of the gunas, and completed negated as not real, duality (ignorance) is still there and will stand in the way of freedom from suffering.
“I’ve” negated the jiva, but again technically speaking is that “I” pure awareness, Isvara or the mind of jiva?
Sundari: It is a mixture as there is still confusion and the objectification of Awareness. Though the jiva-Isvara identity needs work, Self-knowledge is definitely working on the mind, and you are asking the right questions, keep it up.
Sarah: Yes I had gotten myself nice and confused when I wrote back, but I found this email I wrote about 5 years ago. What do you think-
“So, here are my thoughts, it seems that since the mind is inert and the Self doesn’t have a mind (is not an entity), nobody by themselves could be enlightened. Being that the Self is not ignorant of its nature and the mind can’t know anything on its own. So, it must be the combination of mind illumined by awareness, that then is ignorant or Self-realized and it’s the mind that benefits from Self-realization, however the “benefit” is to realize, it’s really the Self/awareness and it (the mind/body/sense complex) is only an “apparent” manifestation of awareness itself. So, without the combination (mind/awareness), there wouldn’t even be “Self-realization” or Moksa at all, as there would be no need for either one.”
Thank you so much for the fast reply. It is greatly appreciated, and I will read it and contemplate on both your emails in the coming days.
Nameste and love to you and James
Sundari: You are welcome, we are very happy to assist you with your inquiry.
Yes, you statement above is correct, there is obviously no need for moksa if you know you are moksa. Duality is a convincing and wily game, but once you know what it is you have no trouble with it! But if self-inquiry is sporadic, ignorance quickly creeps back in, though the ground gained previously is not lost, it might take a while to regain it.
It cannot be stated enough how important it is to be consistent with self-inquiry and to put the knowledge (karma yoga and guna yoga) into practice. Once the first two stages of self-inquiry, hearing (srvanna) and contemplation (manana) are firm, the last stage, nididhysana is the most difficult. If the inquirer has not been thorough in laying strong foundations in the first two stages, progress will stall, and confusion clouds discrimination. So go back to the beginning and make sure you have followed all the steps as laid down in James’ books, How to Attain Enlightenment and The Essence of Enlightenment. Read the article I have on the website in New to Vedanta titled The Steps of Self-Inquiry.
Stick with it, the rewards are worth it!
Much love,
Sundari
