Barry: My attack email set off an interesting series of karmic unfoldings for me as well. I knew that what I wrote in my first email was not entirely off the mark, but I had a nuanced email in mind to write, rather than the aggressive one I ended up sending to you and James. It ended up being a good case of “the pot calling the kettle black!”
As you have said to me several times, the assimilation process of Self-knowledge takes as long as it takes. And human relationship will remain fraught with complexity at its own apparent level of reality. Transference is almost always present in the teacher-student relationship. That alone was a huge lesson to learn for me in my relationship with Andrew. One that I could only learn in hindsight. As a student you depend for your spiritual food on your teacher. That places the teacher in a position of tremendous power.
I have allowed myself to be abused to an extreme by Andrew Cohen. Speaking of low self-esteem…. I have done plenty of work to resolve all the mental fallout of this little growing up lila that Isvara sent my way, but as I said, the pattern I see repeated in the painful break-down of relationship with the endorsed teachers in SW, obviously close students too, hit and exposed a raw nerve that I am getting a chance now to slice off another layer of karmic residue.
There is no need to even say that you and James are not like Andrew Cohen, as you asked me, there is no comparison here whatsoever, but….. when I see the power card played by you or James in relationship to close students, endorsed teachers, and I witness the complete breakdown of relationship, it hits close to home.
Everybody can make mistakes, we all make mistakes. The jiva learns. But this is a delicate thing, for me to point out something to you and James who have given me so much. I wish I had done it in an appropriate manner, but Isvara made me do it this way. It is his fault! The advaita shuffle is a term that as far as I know was coined by a student of Andrew Cohen. We mix orders of reality. Like you have said to me, we can never impose satya on mithya.
Andrew was unapproachable. Hiding behind the veneer of having arrived and being perfect. His demand on us was that we were to be perfect as well. Like him! What a joke. In the process, I have written dozens and dozens of letters to him expressing my “shock” at my endless imperfections and repeated loss of perspective. It is Vedanta that has given me a clear understanding of the fundamental mistake of again and again identifying with the ahankara/jiva, as if it has any bearing on the fact of me being non-dual Brahman.
The expression of the jiva never has any bearing on this, the fact of Moksha…. and yet we continue doing our best to improve the stinking or poor jiva…..
For the vasanas to be truly extinguished, for all karmic traces to really have burned up, is the rarest thing isn’t it. Very few can claim that.
This course of events has provided me with plenty of consideration, contemplation and niddhidyasanam. The hurting jiva continues to hurt others until the vasanas get neutralized. This situation has shed a powerful light on these karmic conditions of jiva Barry. Thank you for your letter, for writing and staying in touch, for opening your heart even after my angry outburst, I appreciate our years of email exchanges very much. I hope your family affairs have resolved in as good a way as possible. Even with all difficulties, family ties are so deeply full of love. You flew all the way to Bali to do your best to help the situation. I hope too that your chronic pain may find a way of easing off.
Sundari: Thank you for your email, I understand why you went where you did regarding your attack on Ramji and me. And why you did and still draw comparisons between me and Ramji and Andrew Cohen. It is understandable given the abuse you took from Andrew and, handed out to others on his behalf, for two decades. I can only imagine what it must be like to get sucked into the control of such an ego-maniac and how long the road to recovery must be from that kind of indoctrination, and the shame it must have brought you. And I can understand that it would cause you to be wary of being subjected to it again. I have great compassion for you, always have had.
As I expressed to you in my last email, I have come to terms with the suspicion/protection vasana in this jiva make-up, I even posted it online under the title ‘The Durodhyana Factor’. There is not much more to say on it other than what is said there. As the Self, we are free of the jiva, but to live fully free of it, as you point out and I have said many times, is very rare. Ramji is the only person I know of in the ten years of working and teaching Vedanta that I can say this is true for. We are a work in progress, though no less the Self. It is a both/and. As a Vedanta teacher, of course, it has greater importance to clean up the jiva’s act.
That you see the honesty samskara in me as a Vedanta teacher as an abuse of power is interesting, and again, understandable. Vedanta is the most powerful teaching there is, that is why qualifications for it are non-negotiable. Cohen understood this much and used the power to his advantage. He manipulated the teachings using the ‘honesty’ card to great effect. This is not your personal experience with us, you cannot deny that. We have both shown you nothing but kindness, respect, and humility in our student/teacher relationship. I went out of my way to help you, as did Ramji, treating you always as an equal and a friend, as we do all inquirers.
Your attack on us was based on assumptions you made as a result of your conditioning of what you think others have experienced from us. Your allegations in respect of the Shiningworld teachers we unendorsed are also purely your point of view because you do not have all the facts. Most important, it is clear you do not understand nor respect Ramji’s authority as Isvara in protecting the teachings. We all see life through the filters of the jiva’s experience until we don’t. Clearly, you still do. I have no need to defend or deny these allegations, not personally nor on behalf of Ramji or ‘Shiningworld”. I know they are not true, though it may seem like they are from your background and perspective.
However, to accuse Ramji of abusing power is not only way off the mark, it reveals that you do not really understand what it is to be not only a qualified Vedanta teacher but a Mahatma. Ramji is the scripture, and if you respect the authority of the scripture then you respect his authority to act on its behalf. There is no person on this planet who is more qualified than Ramji as a Vedanta teacher, more humble or less inclined to power plays than he is. How could he be when he is the Self, knows only the Self, and teaches only the Self? If what you claim is true, then everything he teaches is false.
There is no fine print to nonduality and no separation, Barry. Satya and mithya are mithya and never meet because they were never apart. Ramji is the Self, a true Mahatma, and he truly can claim that ‘Isvara made me do it’. Whatever he does is correct, there is no fine print to it because he is Dharma with a big D. You no doubt will interpret this to mean I have blind allegiance to Ramji, but you could not be further from the truth. I may not be fully Self-actualized, but I do know what that entails because I am the Self. From that perspective, there is no doubt about recognizing the living embodied scripture, the Self.
There is no way anyone can fault Ramji as a Vedanta teacher unless they do not understand this. He is the real deal. Though of course, many people who take him as a person and project their issues onto him do find fault with him, as do you. You must believe he is the person called James, a construct. That is so sad Barry. You missed the whole point of the teachings. The sustenance you claim to get never comes from the teacher if it is a valid means of knowledge for the Self, as is Vedanta. You only believe that because you were sucked into the control of false teachers who taught you to give your allegiance to them. The ‘sustenance’ in Vedanta comes from YOU, the Self. The teacher’s role is to hold up the mirror of the scripture so that you recognize YOURSELF. Your thinking is tamasic and still conditioned by what happened to you in the past.
Your claim that ‘Isvara made me do it” is true in that all is Isvara. So is it in the case of me taking a hard line with some students. Though the ruthless honesty was often unnecessary and needed to be tempered, I can quite easily also claim that it was appropriate and very helpful, at times. This is a tricky area because neither of us is fully Self-actualized, and until we are, there is room here for the Advaita shuffle. Whoever coined the term, it was not Cohen and if ever it applied to anyone, it was him. The satsang I posted deals with this issue. I faced it head-on. Have you? The pot calling the kettle black does not apply here, Barry, because the kettle was never black. The pot is calling the pot black, as Ramji said to you.
While I totally agree with your comments regarding transference onto the teacher, again, this shows a lack of understanding of what a Vedanta teacher is. A qualified Vedanta teacher is the Self and teaches only the Self. Any Vedanta teacher that allows transference from the jiva is not a qualified teacher. We are mouthpieces for Isvara, period. The teachings have nothing to do with us as people and if a student tries to project onto us, which they do before they know better, we set them straight immediately. We did this with you, often. Vedanta tells you upfront that you are the Self and the teachers’ role is only to guide self-inquiry to keep it on track for the scripture, Self-knowledge, to do ‘the work’ of removing ignorance. No teacher can remove ignorance for anyone nor give anyone anything other than to unfold the teachings correctly. Which we did, for you, for years, with great patience and love.
Furthermore, Vedanta is uncompromising in its teaching. It is the logic of existence, not a philosophy or psychological therapy that can be soft-pedaled to suit the inquirer’s tender mind. Vedanta is not about protecting the ego. For moksa to obtain, ruthless honesty is required of the inquirer. That said, because the scripture is so powerful and not for the faint of heart, the teacher does need to assist the inquirer to come to terms with seeing the jiva and its programs in a kind and humble way. In this, my nature tends to be too blunt, no doubt, which is why the recent shift needed to take place. It is a painful process to see the ego for what it is until it is totally negated by the Self.
Thank you for your good wishes regarding me and ‘my’ family. There is no issue there that has not been seen and resolved in light of the Self. Love is love, beautiful and free. For the Self, the slate is always clean.
Love, Sundari
From Ram: Evidently you didn’t get the idea in my last email. There was no “power card” although I can understand why you see things spiritual through that filter. There are always two sides to every situation. Was Krishna playing the power card when he told Arjuna to fight? Was I playing the power card when I protected the tradition from the handful of individuals who didn’t abide by the rules? Dispassion means considering all points of view, collecting evidence, and letting the evidence speak for itself, not just sympathizing with the aggrieved “victim.” and lashing out. If you were abused by Andiew, it’s on you, not Andrew. Permitting yourself to be abused when you know you are being abused is self-abuse. It goes much deeper to your childhood and beyond. Also, I have always said that if you have doubts about a teacher take refuge in Isvara and the teaching. You just aren’t thinking clearly, Barry. If I was an abusive person, how do you explain the continual and genuine outpouring of gratitude that I experienced, the growth of ShiningWorld the many people eager to serve, etc> You have it all wrong Barry. You’re not being fair to yourself. How long since you were supposed abused and since you abused others? The pot is calling the pot black. The kettle is untarnished. There’s been plenty of water under the bridge since Andrew, yet you carry this poor me thought seemingly with pride. Pack it in, do your duty and avoid whiners. You’re testing my patience. If there is another letter with this complaint I will no longer reply and when asked by others I will show them our correspondence. Stand up and fight this ignoble tendency O Mighty Arjuna.
Ram
