Quote from Sundari: “Seeing as we can never stop doing, rajas is a great energy trained in the service of sattva. As long as it stays that way, rajas in the service of sattva gets what needs to be done in a good, efficient and effortless way.”
“It’s just the manic desire and/or fear based ownership of the doing/getting/keeping that makes rajas a big problem and burns us out”
N: This is a beautiful way to understand Rajas thank you.
S: Yes it is the only way to make sense of rajas, really. We need all three gunas, but knowing how to use them for maximum peace of mind makes all the difference.
N: I was having a long chat last night with my brother who introduced me to James years ago and thanked him again. He has been such a seeker, spending months in India, following Ramana, driving himself round the hill sometimes shouting into the air at Iswara that “his mind” cannot get it, spending weeks in caves.
He had come to the conclusion now that his mind will never get it and we laughed at how we each have something in us which hates letting go of our oh so personal drives – we could each admit that was his and mine was not being good enough, at work, at school, in relationships, in spirituality. Once seen enough these Causal body tendencies are the same but become so apparently specific and owned forcing the Jiva to apparently go an apparently long way for apparently nothing.
S: My talk this Sunday is on this topic – the resistance of the ego to submit, and how it can convince the mind that it is inept, if that is what will work to keep the status quo.
N: However we could agree last night that the knowledge in both our cases was the extracted (like the sweet grass) permanent when scripture referenced “thing” to retain: in Sams’ case that the knowledge his mind will never “get enlightened” has another side of the coin – this is wonderful news, to know finally that this is impossible, was always impossible is a pure gift from Iswara as only the Self logically remains.
That logic appears at first to be “dry” without the expected stars and spangles of an experience and yet falls beautifully into place in the teachings; this is freedom.
S: Yes! It’s so funny how the ego works, its many ploys to hang onto to doership and likes and dislikes. If it’s going to give something up, it wants a big show, not something ‘ordinary’! Self-knowledge is so staggeringly simple and obvious, yet for the ego to transfer its identity to it is far from it.
N: While his Jiva is still harking after it he can slowly progressively see it and be free. I see my Jiva reflexively jumping at work, pesky and addicted to making a point, impressing a girl but before it even starts (unless I am so blown out with stress and Tamas) I just look at it and go “why? Why bother?”
Like the original Star Wars when Alec Guinness takes Luke Skywalker into an impossibly dangerous check point, Luke is freaking out and Obi Wan (Alex) just waves his hand casually with the Force running through his body and says to the Stormtroopers “there is nothing to see here, nothing to do, move on”. Luke then says when they are out of danger “How??!” and in full Jedi fashion Obi Wan says “the force (Iswara) has a strong influence on the weak (Tamas / Rajas) minded”.
While the teenager me thought this was incredibly cool I misunderstood that Obi Wan (as Arjuna) had chosen Krishna. Had he chosen a massive army instead, we know what the outcome would likely have been. What Hollywood is missing out on is it might not have gone that way – Obi Wan is not a magician. He was not doing it. It might have had all kinds of outcomes. Such things happen all the time but none of us are “Jedi”.
S: Great analogy!
N: So last night we were debating “so what are we doing?” – and we went down the qualification list…and debated it – we bring our bodies and minds into the Vedanta car workshop. We listen. We keep listening as best we can as often as we can. That is all we can do and the knowledge(able) “mechanics” do the work on the car but they are not people. Sam has had so many experiences of Shakti gurus touching his forehead and he’s been off for days high as a kite and inevitably came right back down every time. The fact he “came back down” is knowledge.
S: In my talk on Sunday I am going to talk about how the ego’s resistance interferes with karma yoga at every stage of inquiry, and that karma yoga is often misunderstood to be skill in action, when it is and it isn’t. Skill or dedication in any action, even in showing up as an inquirer and getting the car (mind) overhauled by the scripture, is an effect or a benefit of karma yoga, but it is not it, exactly. Karma yoga is an attitude of right dharmic action, yes, but in surrender to Isvara is the tough part.
N: In sattvic moments we know we are clear enough to discriminate and be dispassionate enough to not allow what inevitably streams out of the Causal body which we can’t stop – triggered apparently by our Vasana loads (hopefully less now in swings, at least modulated) which appears to be so individual, to what is apparently outside of us. Knowing that we are ostensibly “offline” when Rajas (and I 100% agree, especially Tamas) are in the majority shareholding.
S: Well, that depends. You as the Self are never and can never be ‘offline’. You have no problem with any of the gunas, or what they haul out of the Causal body, as none of it affects you. However, if rajas and tamas are in the driver’s seat of the ego, and whatever is still lurking in the CB is coming for ‘you’, now there you have a problem – IF you are identified with the ego/mind. If you are not, you see the gunas playing out, you see the CB and its seemingly personal emanations as not me, thank you very much. ‘You’ as a non-doer take appropriate action in the karma yoga spirit, to ‘do’ what is possible and reasonable to manage the relative proportion of rajas and tamas to sattva, because peace of mind is paramount to you. That is mind management, and once Self-knowledge is firm, it is automatic.
N: Then all “we have” in our minds is like blind faith from the knowledge, still we can just stop the senses and actions with a dim memory of “nah, we did that before..” even when the urge is so compelling and so justified and so “righteous”.
S: No, not exactly. There is still a doer talking here, if only a subtle one. As a doer we cannot stop the senses doing what they do, true. But with Self-knowledge, we can certainly relate to the information they relay to us in a completely different way…i.e., not trust it and take it under the advisement of our nondual values. Inference is a valid means of knowledge, if the senses are in the service of actual knowledge, be it mithya knowledge or Self-knowledge. But if the senses are in the service of ignorance, definitely do not trust the information they are giving unless it concurs with Self-knowledge. This is what discrimination and discernment boil down to.
If the ‘we’ in your mind is known to be Self, faith is no longer necessary. You haven’t gained anything when Self-knowledge obtains, only lost ignorance. Both ignorance and knowledge (i.e. faith) are objects known to you. What is there to have faith in? There is only you. Self-knowledge, like your name, does not require faith. If however, there is still ‘faith in the knowledge’ lurking in the mind, then there is still some duality, or, those are the remnants of teaching that have to go.
N: What never works is trying to maintain a state of being high up – which we have both had countless times. In fact the higher it was the worse later – oh God I must be so bad or – in the case of cults “oh this shows how toxic the world is and I must do more for the cult so more people can be saved / brought in from the cold” etc. For us both now to pray for knowledge rather than enlightenment was quite an admission for us both!
S: That’s for sure! If you do not know that you cannot get any higher than the Self, the higher the ego goes the further it has to fall. And fall it will.
N: The faith comes from that we both know it to be true even if “we” don’t at times feel like it.
S: Again, that depends. Who does the ‘we’ refer to? Self-knowledge is not something you can believe in – and if you do, you don’t get it. It’s who you are, whether or not you (ego/mind) believe it or ‘feel’ it. Self-knowledge is not a feeling because feelings come and go. It’s just who you are, which never comes and goes regardless of what ‘you’ are feeling.
N: We both have had so many lucky moments from the first meeting of James, through the scriptures, through the Satsangs, through the discussions, we have been round the Tiruvannamalai hill (in his case physically!, in my case mentally, emotionally) to know that the candle is burning down, the fan is off but still rotates, our knowledge gets clearer in a very measured, dosed, precise way which is also not up to us, regardless of what we do – other than bringing our minds and bodies and emotions to the knowledge, it does the work for us in the Causal body workshop.
S: The mountain and the candle are just symbols of you, the Self. You don’t need to go anywhere to know or experience that because you are always experiencing it. That’s the problem with people believing they need to ‘have the experience’. Just trust the knowledge to be doing ‘the work’, as it clearly is.
N: While I am graced with realisations I also know now “I” do not have these or figure these out. Allowing me to think I do is fine but becomes less relevant – even this will disappear like a waste bag which has served its purpose of carrying.
S: As long as you know that the ‘I” you refer to is the Self, all is well. Isvara will remove any ignorance still in the way of the full assimilation of that fact, for as long as it takes. But, the good news is that no matter what, you are never not the Self!
N: Without a benchmark reference of the scripture this would be very difficult and, without the lineage of competent witnesses impossible I am now sure.
As James often says “so God, or Christ comes down and says in a booming voice with incredible light “you are consciousness!” – would it really make any difference?”
Jiva’s ignorance after this experience will kick right back in and worse, probably co-opt “me” as enlightened (or mad like a raving prophet in Monty Python – so thank Iswara that it doesn’t happen !!)
S: Yes, that is for sure.
N: But I heard this again last night and really knew it wouldn’t now – even though I knew the logic to be true years ago. The knowledge spans our minds like elastic from first hearing it to an apparent point in the future and provided we can take it on board provisionally and openly, at some point it snaps and all the time and drama in between which may have been years snaps and disappears as if nothing was in between at all, an illusion. This must be programmed – this has to be pre-wired into consciousness, the precision is way too exact to be random.
S: Yes, well put. We need a good clear (sattvic) intellect to understand and contemplate the teachings. When the inquirer is totally dedicated, Isvara refines the intellect, which is in mithya and constrained by it, to the extent that you don’t need it anymore. It’s not that you no longer use it because you need an intellect to function in mithya. But once Self-knowledge is firm, the work of the intellect is done regarding Self-knowledge. Assimilation is not actually done by the intellect; ‘your’ ignorance has been removed by Self-knowledge, itself. How can an object ever know the subject? Even karma yoga and discrimination become second and first nature, they are just there. The ‘discriminator’ is gone. You are no longer an inquirer but a finder.
N: Like the surrender I felt going into an operating room, surrounded by advanced equipment, people with masks clearly saying we’re gonna do this, you will wake up – even if I really wasn’t sure – it was: “this” or, “get up off the table and try and “do” it on my own” with no clue (not really wise!).
Very few people would do that in a hospital, but I think in the spiritual world he and I have. While he has stayed a course of Indian things in various forms I went all over the place – but in both cases the commonality for us both is we tried all kinds of “self” operations and at some point we know, there is nothing else and, hopefully, with grace, met Vedanta.
S: Yes, few people convinced they are people who are born and will die, would have that surrender. We do what we do until we don’t have to anymore; if the reason for that is because Vedanta, the nondual scripture, has assimilated, we are fortunate indeed.
N: Then I know there is nothing else when I meet it, in the same way I knew it was a dream before my Jiva is allowed by Ishwara to see it is a dream. Iswara pulled me awake, “I” did not wake me up. I can infer from this knowledge that death is likely similar: “ok you are now being pulled out – like a very big dream” and it won’t be in my control at all. I will observe it happening and what happens after until that is all there is. Whether “here” or “there”.
S: “I” do not sleep, ever. I, the Self, am the knower of the body/mind asleep, dreaming or awake, as I am the knower of Isvara who is the bringer of sleep, dreaming, waking and dying. Sleep is exactly like death, except we wake up ‘in the body’.
Sundari quote: Can there be anything more tedious than the hustle for self-importance, wherever it plays out. So interesting what a game changer Self-knowledge is; nothing changes yet our whole orientation has changed from ego to Self. Sure the ego does not always like it, but hey. It’s all good even when it’s not that great for the ego. We all go through this; knowing who you are is not a magic bullet for the ego. As long as we do not muddy the waters by allowing the doer influence or purchase, we get through it.
N: Yes! – it’s infuriating to the ego but pure freedom at the same time. It causes a natural odd retreat, almost disappearing. All this action and aiming at things disappearing and an “after fog” in the mind. – Knowledge is progressively blowing up ignorance but not with any violence at all.
S: It happens so slowly for ever so long, and then, all at once. As Hemingway said (I think)
Sundari quote: “It was the Self watching the dream and the dreamer seemingly awake in the dream”
N: This is a really important point, thank you. My mind had not yet seen this subtle difference. “I” was not “flying” even though “I” was proud that “I” could. I was observing it.
S; Always remember the true identity of that ‘I”.
Sundari quote: We learn to protect our precious peace of mind above all else. There is never anything more important than the bliss of Self and life will afford us endless opportunities to exercise that choice through discrimination. Until it becomes first and second nature, and there is no longer a need to choose because even that chooser/discriminator is gone.
N: I have not yet made this decision in my mind to make this the priority at all times. Not because I don’t see this is how it needs to be. My doubt is there are times when I need to hustle – sometimes after I see it was ego, sometimes it seems to be an emergency and “it falls to me to act”.
S: Who needs to hustle, or make a decision to prioritise? The ego sometimes needs to, but are you the ego? If you are ‘hustling’ or ‘deciding’ as an ego, without karma yoga, you are stuck in the whirlpool of samsara. Are you the doer, or not?
N: The discrimination of right action, even if I know it will apparently cause, like at work, stopping something bad (it’s at least far less now of “trying to be something or attain something” thank God!) or most of all, help for family and friends in my immediate field of duty.
S: Same question: are you the doer, or not?
N: What I know is that more than 50% of the time after acting if “I” am left with a clean nothing and no residue of “I showed them” or “oh heck I should not have done that I am so stupid” or “Aren’t I good for helping out” – then it was probably right and I do have a peaceful mind even if I might be physically tired, that is just the fuel I was given by Isawara.
S: If this is true, then genuine karma yoga was at work, and you acted according to the laws of karma and dharma, doing appropriate action in the name of Isvara, seeing that all results come from and belong to the total mind, not ‘you’ as an ego/doer.
N: I also know I will never know for the future actions – it is not up to me – but do have a foggy map now of this discrimination, to at least pause and inquire (I remember to, especially in Tamasic fog or Rajas chaos), what is the motivation here? What, not who, is pulling my strings? Very occasionally and quite by accident I have been in these situations and for some reason just said nothing and did nothing. I really know I did not decide that as a strategy.
S: The answer to all our mithya problems is understanding how resistance to what is works against us, because we are going up against Isvara. If karma yoga is in place, doership is off the table. How could you be the doer, when there are so many many factors involved in anything happening, at all? What hubris. Knowing this, you take appropriate action but leave the results to Isvara. End of story. What happens is what happens, good or bad. You are the witness of either/both.
N: On those lucky moments, perhaps with serious people who mean harm it’s like the gunas have jumped over to “them” – and the outcome is extraordinarily “good”.
S: They are not lucky moments but grace. Another natural law in the karma/dharmafield is the law of attraction. When the mind is pure and surrendered to Isvara, usually that infects anyone it comes into contact with. The results are often very surprising!
N: So while the teenager me would like to think this is next level Jedi stuff I know this is totally not me, it’s all I can do to just resist every reflex jumping in me to do and, even that is not me. All I can agree on with Sam is a sattvic mind means you can reference the Knowledge!
S: I think you can agree on a lot more than that! You are always welcome
And much love to you both, too
Sundari
