Franco: Dear Sundari, Thank you again for the detailed Satsang you gave, there has been much assimilation and it required deeper study and directed me towards the Bhagavad Gita, particularly the tapes from James and his brilliant work with it in Carbondale.
Sundari: You are always welcome!
Franco: Iswara (“or Maya” as James sometimes says) although the distinction seems to be clear now – Maya, being an unexplainable power in the Self, because the Self has all powers but does not cause anything itself, at neither the macro cosmic or micro Jiva level, meaning, Iswara appears because of Maya).
Sundari: Yes, Maya or the hypnosis of duality, is the power in Awareness to delude itself, which is a head scratcher because that’s impossible! Nonetheless, the logic of nonduality states that as the Self has all powers, it must include the power to delude itself and ‘become’ something other than itself – apparently.
When that power, Maya, manifests, the delusion allows for an apparent ‘creator’ to manifest (Isvara) and along with it, an apparent creation with the apparent created being/jiva – the Self apparently under the spell of ignorance. The exact terminology for Maya is that it is neither real or unreal, but it is not non-existent because we experience it. Therefore, ‘apparently’ real only applies to the jiva because for the Self, there is no creation.
Inasmuch as there is a creation, there seems to be cause and effect. Ivara is both the cause and the effects, though it never enters the creation. If Isvara did enter it, there would be no escape from duality. This is hard to grasp because the creation is intelligent. But that intelligence is borrowed from Awareness and is not innate. This in itself is a big thing to grasp because when assimilated you have gone beyond cause and effect to the non-origination teaching.
Franco: There is no why, nor can I as Jiva ever know why, being an object within Iswara, amongst trillions of other Jivas and, all other very rarefied or dense energy, matter.
Sundari: Correct, but only if you mean you as a jiva under the spell of ignorance. There is no why in mithya but we don’t need it when we know the how as satya. Though it seems like there are innumerable jivas, Jiva like Isvara is a principle in Awareness, and there is only one eternal Jiva.
That is why the scripture states that when Self-knowledge actualizes, what is ‘unreal’ ‘becomes’ real, because there is no other option in a nondual reality. You no longer see ‘otherness’, whether you are looking at a microorganism or ‘another’ person.
Franco: What is Self-evident is that I exist as the Self and, the Self exists and everything else, including Iswara, is an object known to me –
Sundari: It is Self-evident that your true nature is the Self, once avidya, personal ignorance, is removed from the mind. However, the Self cannot really be said to exist as we think of it. It is Existence itself. All apparent objects known to it owe their existence to the Self, but Existence/Self exists whether or not the objects exist. Now, there is a head twister for you! The discrimination is always between satya and mithya.
Franco: But to then impute that “I” am somehow higher than Iswara would be mistaken – the Jiva assuming the Jiva to be the Self, which it isn’t. It can at best, in Sattvic moments only know the Self in the mind’s reflection and that the Self is, always.
Sundari: When the “I” from your personal identity has been permanently transferred to the Self, the Jiva is known to be you, as is Isvara. It is not a case of higher or lower – how can it be, in a nondual reality? Isvara and Jiva share the same identity as Existence/Self. The only difference is in their apparent powers as creator/created.
In that category, meaning mithya, only Isvara is omnipotent and omniscient, and jiva only knows its subjective reality and depends on Isvara for everything. When you know this, devotion to Isvara is natural because even though you are non-different as the Self, you don’t cease to exist as an apparent jiva, even though your ignorance has been removed.
Franco: It is this vision of non-duality where everything makes sense. I also know that sometimes “I” do not know this, but this is only temporary, even if the tail of the gunas happens to be wagging the dog a little too much at any apparent moment.
Sundari: This is the ‘work’ in the nididhysana phase – rendering residual ignorance and doership non-binding. Until that phase is completed, the ‘I” can still wrongly be associated with the body/mind or egoic identity. But it usually does not last long because after Self-realization, Self-knowledge cannot be forgotten, only temporarily obscured. When that happens, it feels awful, which tends to put you back on track!
Franco: But for the mind to accept non-duality completely means a whole bunch of significant, apparently life changing things all at once (1) a God up there (of any projected type) and a “me” down here is not real (2) all Jivas are the same and the love I feel for anyone is the same as the Self (3) time does not exist, although it apparently temporarily does, for objects.
Sundari: Yes. For Self-knowledge to remove all remnants of ignorance, which is what it means for ‘the mind to fully accept nonduality’, will mean huge changes in how you relate to everything. It is a complete reversal of the reversal of Maya, and as such, it ‘should’ be easy to make the shift. But sadly, the tenacity of Maya makes nonduality highly counter-intuitive. Until it doesn’t anymore. Then you finally understand what being ‘normal’ really means.
Franco: Taking just these few in sequence means religion, relationships and any kind of ambition to get somewhere or do something are illusions – although as I write this I know my mind rebels even in trying to write these words yet I know them to be Self evidently true.
Sundari: It is only the idea that you need things, anything, to be complete, that is an illusion. Or that you as an ego are the doer who gets things and keeps them. Once dependence on objects is removed and doership negated, there is nothing inherently wrong with any object. Why not enjoy them for their apparent, and temporary, bliss? That is when duality becomes fun, and ceases to be cruel.
Franco: Bhakti for Iswara appears now to me as love for everything I see, which appears timeless (sometimes).
Sundari: There will come a time when time permanently ceases to be a factor in your experience of love.
Franco: Dharma is no longer a worry about doing the right thing but has tipped over into an increasing love to “do” the right thing as part of what Iswara does.
Sundari: The doer ‘doing’ the right thing is still doership. While that may be necessary in the initial stages of putting the teachings into practice, if karma yoga does not come into it, you are still stuck with the doer. The doer cannot do its way to moksa. Isvara is not a doer either; it is just the Total Mind, keeping the show on the road, so to speak. The deliverer of karma so that the jiva can live out its karma, and hopefully, realize its ultimate purpose – which is to realize its true nature as the Self.
Franco: Any comments you wish to make on the above are always most welcome at any time and are so helpful. Thank you. Wishing you both safe travels to Trout Lake and please say hello to James,
Sundari: Thank you, Trout Lake was quite magical, a beautiful and fitting end to a wonderful tradition. We were tired afterwards though, it’s a lot of work and there is a lot of karma involved in getting there and back. But as we didn’t go anywhere, it was just the body that had to recover!
Much love, and James send his love too
Sundari
