Franco: Thank you very much for taking the time to craft an even better response to my question of what the jiva is – and isn’t. I really appreciate your help and having you as a teacher.
To be honest, I didn’t think my question would lead to this incredible (and incredibly difficult) teaching! I know you’ve shared it with me in the past. It’s extremely subtle and I feel I’m not ready for it yet. Any understanding I gain on it or on the non-origination teaching is very brief. Ignorance comes right back almost immediately.
Sundari: Your question about what the jiva is and more importantly, isn’t, should elicit a simple, straight-forward reply. How difficult could it be to understand that our personal identity is an concept known to me, the Self? Ha Ha. When you pull that string it is incredibly long, and leads to the very heart of moksa. Many inquirers do not realise this, even those who know without a doubt that they are the Self. It is why so many get stuck without enjoying the fruit of Self-knowledge – freedom from and for the jiva.
A short (but not easy) reply to your question is this:
The jiva, person or Subtle body is composed of three bodies – Subtle (mind/emotions, intellect, ego), Gross body (subtle sense organs and organs of action), and Causal body – the personal unconscious, or Isvara. It has a certain blueprint given to it by Isvara or God, its personality or inborn nature, influenced and strengthened by its life karma. It seems very real, and it definitely exists because you experience it every minute of your existence, except when you are asleep. But its existence (small ‘e’) depends on the presence of Existence (big ‘E), the Self. If you identify with the jiva, you suffer the slings and arrows of duality, ignorance. If identify with the Self, you don’t. Should be simple, right?
So, why isn’t it? Well, the answer to that is in the long satsang I sent you, (https://shiningworld.com/what-is-the-difference-between-the-jiva-and-the-doer-ego/), and it is where all the teaching in Vedanta takes place. Because it is so subtle and difficult to discriminate between the Self and the jiva, the whole methodology of Vedanta is set up to meet the inquirer every step of the way to the answer the most important question: if moksa is from and for the jiva, what is the jiva?
The person or individual we take ourselves to be is called the conceptual jiva because it is only apparently real (not always present and always changing – mithya). If we get that, the next and much more difficult step is to assimilate that the Jiva is the Self, satya, because there is no other option in a non-dual reality. Once this fact assimilates, you see that even mithya disappears because everything resolves into satya as it is the only non-negatable factor. So the good news is that no matter how confusing this teaching is, there is one unalterable fact:
You are never not the Self, it is not possible. If you stick with the teachings and apply them to your life, particularly karma yoga, dharma yoga and guna yoga, the teachings eventually strip away all the ignorance standing in the way. The jiva (doer) will be dealt with by Self-knowledge, nothing else works. In the meantime, take a stand in Awareness as Awareness, even if you have to fake it till you make it, and leave the rest to Isvara.
However, as I have said to you before: Taking a stand in Awareness as Awareness sometimes turns out to be more than a little tricky because it is so subtle. The split mind watching itself has a slippery tendency to claim to be Awareness. But is it ‘unfiltered’ Awareness or is it an ego-delusion? How to know, and how to deal with that? Taking a stand is done with the mind and can lead to a kind of self-hypnosis that makes the jiva think it is the Self without the full understanding of what it means to be the Self. Of course, based on logic alone, (is there an essential difference between one ray of the sun and the sun itself?) the jiva can claim its identity as the Self—but only when its knowledge of satya and mithya is firm, meaning, direct.
The practice of taking a stand as “I am Awareness” does not give you the experience of Awareness or make you Awareness because you are Awareness. It negates the identification with the jiva as a conceptual person (body/mind). This is an important point, make sure it goes in. When the conceptual jiva identity is negated, the inquirer should be mindful of the Awareness that remains because negating the jiva produces a void. Nature abhors a vacuum. Many inquirers get stuck here and depression can set in if they cannot take the next step, which is understanding that the emptiness of the void is an object known by the fullness of the Self, the ever-present witness. Or, at that time, many inquirers ‘start’ to experience as Awareness and make a big fuss about it even though you have only ever been experiencing as Awareness all along!
So, the discrimination between jiva’s experience of Awareness and the Self’s experience of Awareness is essential. The Self’s experience of itself is qualitatively different from the jiva’s experience of the Self as an object or as objects. It is one thing to say “I am the Self as the Self and another to say it as the jiva (ego). This realization may well be a painful moment for inquirers who are very convinced that they are enlightened without knowing that they are only enlightened as a jiva, as an ego, not as the Self.
Claiming you are the Self is natural and ordinary, there is no big deal about it because it is the only fact that is absolutely true, never changes, and cannot be denied, only obscured by ignorance. Claiming you are the Self as an ego is a big deal because there is the belief that you have added something to yourself, and it makes you (the ego or conceptual jiva) special in some way.
Here is one of the greatest of all great sayings in Vedanta, because it captures the essence of the teachings:
Brahma Satyam Jagan Mithya Jivo Bramaiva Na Parah. Memorize it.
It means:
I, the Self, am limitless Consciousness and the Jiva is non-different from me.
Franco: A few months back, I had my most profound non-dual experience after reflecting on your email on the non-origination teaching. I thought I fully understood, but then again, ignorance came right back in. That’s why now I’m focusing on more “worldly stuff”, if that makes sense. Practicing jñana yoga seems to lead me mostly to frustration because I’m not qualified yet.
Sundari: This is normal and happens to most inquirers as Self-knowledge works on the mind to purify it. As long as the focus on worldly stuff is done with karma yoga plus a deeply devotional attitude and adherence to dharma, you can still stay on track without the world sucking you into the whirlpool of samsara. Assimilation is not an easy process and the lights will go on and off, as the saying goes, because ignorance is hard wired. So much depends on what you value most, how developed the qualifications for self-inquiry are, and of course, your dedication to your sadhana.
Franco: After your satsang on the Duryodhana factor, it slowly became clear I was trying to do a lot of spiritual bypassing. There were and still are many things I was totally unaware of (resentments, fears, self-demeaning beliefs, etc). I thought I had dealt with most of these things back in my ayahuasca days, but slowly as I kept praying and opening myself to what was inside, all this negative and nasty stuff began to emerge. It has been very helpful to practice acceptance and the opposite thought.
Sundari: Good for you. Again, this is par for the course for most inquirers; the mind is a complex instrument. I bring up the Durodhyanaq factor again and again to emphasize how important it is to recognise the shadow unconscious content and its impact on our lives. The personal jiva is just one big conglomeration, or compilation, of programmes, from very subtle to gross. It is caused by the Causal body, and it has one main mission – to find happiness. Meaning freedom from limitation. Therein lies the problem and the salvation.
Franco: In fact, the new blog on Modern Psychology & Vedanta came to me at the perfect time. Yesterday as I was reading a book that John Baxter recommended (Feeling Good by David Burns), it finally dawned on me that I have been depressed for almost two years. Of course this is all jiva stuff but I’m thrilled I could finally spot this problem that has been obstructing my progress with the Vedanta and with everything in my life.
Sundari: I am very happy for you, feel free to contact John. I think it is probably fair to say that most jivas operate with some level of depression without knowing it, unless and until the value for freedom from suffering develops. Even happy people suffer this because mithya is incapable of delivering lasting happiness. Life is a zero sum.
Franco: Would you say focusing on these topics and on psychology is a good approach? My main goal is still to fully assimilate the logic of karma yoga and prepare my mind for jñana yoga. At the moment, I’m focusing on this inner work and on understanding Isvara 2 while temporarily accepting duality. I realized I never really understood what God is, and that this might have been the missing piece for me finally assimilating karma yoga.
Sundari: Yes, indeed focus on the psychological issues standing in the way of the assimilation of Self-knowledge. There is no way to actualize Self-knowledge unless the mind is divested of its identification with the conceptual jiva program. Understanding God/Isvara is imperative – and again, that means understanding the identity between the jiva/Jiva/jagat/Isvara and the Self, as explained in my previous email.
Franco: It feels odd sharing my excitement over this realization regarding “my” depression, since I know you know the one that’s depressed is not me! But still, on some level I’m very happy and wanted to share the news with you. Now that I’m aware of the problem, I know where to focus my energy.
Sundari: It is a great relief to understand the mechanism of the mind, how and why it suffers, and to know that you have the means of knowledge to deal with that – the holy grail of the nondual teachings, Vedanta. The only way out of the Alice in Wonderland World of mithya. That is a reason to be happy, for sure!
Franco: I loved this line you wrote: “There is just you, Consciousness, in which the jiva or person appears in a particular a priori environment i.e. Isvara.”
Sundari: Yes, that is a powerful statement, and if properly assimilated, is enough to deliver moksa.
Franco: Again, thank you very much for all your help, Sundari. I hope you’re doing well and that everything is running smoothly regarding the Trout Lake campout!
Sundari: Thank you, it has been a very busy time for both of us, but we are set to go tomorrow. We will stay in touch.
Much love
Sundari
