G: Vairagya automatically comes after exhaustion of deha, loka, shastra vasanas. Some of us are born with vairagya vasana.
Sundari: Yes, some souls are born with more of vairagya by the grace of Isvara and their punya karma. Vairagya comes naturally with the ability to discriminate Satya from mithya if the mind is qualified and Self-knowledge assimilates. But it can and must be present before the body, the world, and binding vasanas are rendered non-binding because vairagya (dispassion) is one of the main qualifications for self-inquiry.
G: Intellectuals are attracted to Advaita. They develop concepts and stop there.
Sundari: An intellectual understanding of Vedanta is important but not enough because moksha is not intellectual. It is a matter of identity. You cannot study or rationalize Consciousness because it is who you are, therefore, being taught correctly is very important because the mind is conditioned by Maya, beginningless ignorance, full of ignorant ideas. It understands and interprets through the filters of its conditioning until Self-knowledge obtains and avidya is removed. Highly intellectual people are very attached to their point of view and tend to be vain about their intellectual abilities. They are more interested in how they think and don’t realize the identification (ignorance) stands in the way of Self-knowledge obtaining.
Vedanta requires a certain kind of intellect – one that is refined, purified, and surrendered so that it is capable of assimilating the meaning of the teachings, which are extremely subtle and therefore, very counter-intuitive. Self-inquiry requires training the intellect to think differently and to want different things. While we need an intellect, it is not the intellect that removes ignorance. It is just an object known to you, the Self. You cannot ‘think your way to enlightenment’ because it is the ego, the doer, doing the thinking. The ego must surrender to a qualified teacher and subject the mind with great dedication and humility to the teachings for Self-knowledge to remove ignorance.
G: Even akhandkara vritti is provisional truth. But it helps.
Sundari: Yes, true. The akandhakara vritti is essential for moksa to obtain, but it does not mean that Self-knowledge is firm. The akandhakara vritti means the unbroken or unending knowledge of Self as your true and primary identity that appears in the mind when ignorance is removed by the scripture, leaving only the Self, which has always been there. But if there is still residual ignorance after Self-realization, which is normal in the nididhysana stage, then there is still ‘work’ to be done by Self-knowledge to remove it. Self-realization is not Self-actualization.
G.: What I felt was first false self is gone then subtle body can be purified which takes no. of lifetimes.
Sundari: There is only one ‘false self’ and that is the identification with the jiva or Subtle body—i.e., the Self under the (apparent) spell of ignorance, Maya. If the false self (i.e. duality/the idea that you are a person) is gone (permanently negated) that is moksa. Purification of the Subtle body precedes that and is necessary for Self-knowledge to assimilate. We get the Subtle body we are born with according to our prarabdha karma, it is up to the grace of Isvara who delivers all karma. A Subtle Body that is ready for self-inquiry (purified) is the result of good karma. But as stated above, Self-realization is not Self-actualization. For that to take place, all stages of self-inquiry (sraddha, manana, nididhysana) must be completed. And there is one more vital factor for moksa to obtain: devam, the grace of Isvara
G.: Some awaken at the Causal body level.
Sundari: What do you mean some ‘awaken’ at Causal body level’? Who is it that ‘awakens’? The Causal body is an eternal principle in Consciousness, the repository for all vasanas, karma. The Causal body gives rise to the dharmafield, the reflected medium, for the jiva to work out its karma. It is mithya, not Sathya. Sathya and mithya never meet, they are in different orders of reality, that which is real and only apparently real. The Causal Body is another name for Isvara, the creative principle, Consciousness wielding Maya. But Isvara, being conscious because it is Consciousness, is not conditioned by Maya so never ‘sleeps’. Therefore, it cannot ‘wake up’. If Isvara were conditioned by Maya, there would be no possibility of removing ignorance. Therefore ‘awakeness’ is a very bad term for Consciousness, the Self.
It is not a good term for the jiva either, not as the personal jiva or the Eternal jiva, as it too does not ‘wake up’ because it is not conscious. But because the jiva appears to be conscious due to the light of Consciousness shining on it, we could say that it wakes up from the slumber of ignorance to its true nature as the Self with the removal of ignorance by Self-knowledge. Though as the jiva is really the Self it was never under the spell of ignorance. Maya makes it appear so.
G: And atma is nirakara, nirguna, chetana, Satya.
Sundari: Yes, Consciousness, Satya has no form and no desires, but why chetana? Chetana means alive or sentient from my understanding of Sanskrit, which admittedly is not my strongest point. Satya is not sentient in the way we think of that word, though it makes sentiency possible. Unless you mean chaitanya, which means Consciousness.
G: But who recognizes it? Soul only.
Sundari: By Soul, do you mean the Self, the Jivatman? The Self may not be the jiva, but the Jiva is the Self. Jivatman is one but has three parts: original pure Consciousness, plus the Subtle Body or Eternal Jiva (reflecting medium), plus the reflection, the non-eternal or ‘personal’ jiva. There is only one Eternal Jiva appearing as many apparently unique individuals or non-eternal (personal) jivas. Although the personal jiva lives for a moment in time, the Jiva is an eternal principle in Consciousness and therefore, either unmanifest or manifest as a Subtle body whenever Maya appears. Therefore, neither the Eternal Jiva nor non-eternal jiva is real with reference to Awareness. Real defined as that which is always present and unchanging, which can only be applied to Consciousness.
G: Satcitananda is not satcitanant. See what advaita has done to me!
Sundari: Yes, Sat Chit Ananda is experiential bliss and ends, as opposed to Sat Chit
Ananta, non-experiential bliss, which does not end because it is the nature of the Self.
G: I recently read neuroscience article which perfectly is same as nondual Awareness. Sadhanas help atma jnana not atma.
Sundari: Everything dissolves into the logic of Existence, which is what the Science of Consciousness is. And yes, moksa is for the jiva as the Self is ever free.
G: I hope this is fine. Thanks for reading this. I shared this with you for 2 reasons. You can appreciate this, and you guided me at initial stage.
Sundari: Yes, I do appreciate it. Are you sending it for confirmation? It seems clear that you know who you are, but some of the points you make could use better clarification. Perhaps it is just a matter of language.
Om, Sundari
