Danielle: I discovered Shiningworld and all of you a few months ago and since then I’m keeping listening, reading…
After some months on the foundation steps listening to all the self-inquiry available and going through the Tattva Bodha, I’m on this marvelous and huge topic of the Gita, listening to James, translating Rory’s book and the transcription available on the website made in Spain, reading the one of Chinmayananda in my mother tongue and planning to go through the Dayananda home studies course…
All that to say I would like to follow the webinar but I prefer to stay focused. But I do believe it will be interested to purchase the best teachings on these different topics because I wish at some point to get them.
Sundari: Thank you for your email, and for your appreciation for Shiningworld. We are always so happy to hear from dedicated inquirers whose lives are immeasurably improved by the teachings. You are more than welcome to join us for the seminar this weekend as the topic of dharma is central to the Bhagavad Gita, and to the foundations of Vedanta. You will not lose focus. Certainly, it will help you to follow the methodology of the teachings, as they are progressive for a reason. Watch as many videos as you can, it is an essential aid to your sadhana.
Danielle: It is attached my mind map to this email. I do believe there is a lot to do to simplify the access because it is very hard as a beginner to find the right way with so much information. I designed websites.
Sundari: I read your mind map, it’s good. We thank you for your feedback on our website, and I understand you had a problem. But we have had many inquirers tell us that they find our website easy to follow. We give very clear instructions on our home page and on several places on our website on how to conduct inquiry. We also have three free courses available which explain it, from beginner to advanced, as you know.
Danielle: Thank you for your advice and your invitation to follow the webinar on Dharma. The first point, and my request was in this perspective, after having followed the webinar on the Kena Upanishad I realized how difficult it is to stand in front of a screen for hours being passive and I keep a bad memory of it. It is so different than in presence of the teacher. I can do it again if I feel it will be really useful.
Sundari: Self-inquiry is not easy, especially unfolded in a foreign language, that is for sure. It requires a mind that has a single pointed attention span, which is difficult for many, I know. It is easier to be in the physical presence of the teacher, but you are in the presence of the teacher because the teacher is the Self. And zoom takes place in real time. You can ask questions. I encourage you to attend, but it is your choice. Self-inquiry is not about being comfortable, it is about getting out of your comfort zone to face the truth about reality, which is never easy.
Are you not prepared to suffer a little bit for freedom? I know we live in a world where everything is supposed to be easy and immediate, like instant, fast food enlightenment. But if you really want freedom more than anything else and are committed to self-inquiry, you can forget about things being easy for the jiva to start off with. As the knowledge obtains, life will improve, but it is best not to have expectations about that because facing our likes and dislikes and overcoming them is never a simple matter. Therefore, qualifications are so important. If you do not have the required qualifications self-inquiry will be too difficult and you will give up, or the knowledge will just not stick.
Danielle: The second point, in relation with the first, I guess the Dharma webinar (value of values) will mostly unfold the Dayananda work on this topic. Maybe it will help to know precisely what will be unfolded as a table of contents to have the possibility to avoid what seems to be already seen and to appreciate if some other points can really help? I know you’re doing your best to keep going in the current situation worldwide.
Sundari: Yes, James is going to give commentaries on Dayananda’s Value of Values, but he is going to expand the teaching to cover more extensively what dharma is, and why it is so important. It is a topic that is extremely relevant in these times when so many people have lost their moral compass. Our seminars are not university subjects, Danielle. We do not post a ‘table of contents’, though we do post the text online which you can download and follow. Vedanta does not spoon food inquirers, unfortunately. A qualified inquirer is prepared to overcome all obstacles in the way of self-inquiry. The Essence of Enlightenment explains in simple terms what the requirements are for self-inquiry, in particular the qualifications and motivations necessary.
Danielle: My third point connects to the others and is the amount of stuff I’m facing. I do believe, as I said earlier, it will help a lot to make a work to synthesize and make accessible easily what is essential.
Sundari: Thank you for your suggestion, we will look into it. We do so much for our inquirers, especially James who has tirelessly unfolded the teachings for 50 years. But there is only the two of us, there is so much work, and we give almost everything away freely. There is no Indian Trust behind us, we fund everything ourselves.
Danielle: I mean, I have in my hand the complete teaching Suryalila 2020 (listening 1,5 times before to understand I was not enough advanced), the set of all videos who are not following the same order exactly as the foundation and advanced courses (8 different SI I did listen 2 times minimum, the 2 different recordings of the Tattva Bodha. I listen once but I want to come back to Belgium 2016 as I really enjoyed it. I read also on the same topic the Tejomayananda book made by Chinmaya mission France. I want to come back on because I can’t really assimilate it all. I’m having all the books I’m translating as much I can following the order of the teaching. I translated already the EE, experience vs knowledge, How to Attain Enlightenment, Meditation, the Yoga of Love, Experience and Knowledge, the one-year course, and I just finished the Gita from Rory. I’m doing proofreading, translating the transcription from Spain I found on the website, and listening to the Gita Tiru 2012 meanwhile). As a user, I would find it very precious to get a road map of the essence of the teaching because without a burning desire no way…
Sundari: You are the first person we have ever had to write to us complaining that we have too much on offer. Have you considered how fortunate you are to have this much high-level Vedanta at your disposal? I know you thanked us in your email but consider that you are one of the fortunate ones to have found Shiningworld. You certainly seem very dedicated though, and this is good. Perhaps you are just trying to do too much and are overloaded. Maybe you are a goal-oriented person, and Vedanta does not work that way, as I explained.
Danielle: Anyway, I found my way and it was not an issue because I am lucky life gave me the opportunity to entirely focus on moksha. But before to be in touch with Stan I was saying to myself to let it down. Hopefully Ishvara decided in other way and I can contemplate the power of a pure teaching, relieved to find the end of the path…I’m sharing all this thinking it can be useful for you and in order to help users who arrived for the first time on the website if it is really needed.
Sundari: Yes, you are very lucky Danielle. It is by the grace of Isvara that anyone finds Vedanta, and James is one of the very best teachers in the world to unfold the teachings. Stick with it, it seems like your commitment is strong and you are making progress. The teachings are designed to unfold in a progressive way to meet the inquirer at each level of their understanding, and to answer all doubts that arise along the way. However, even though self-inquiry has very definite stages of learning and texts that support them, assimilating Vedanta is not a linear process. Depending on the qualifications of the student, an inquirer can progress quite quickly though the three main stages of self-inquiry, but then get stuck in the last stage, sometimes for years.
As a beginner the most important thing is to get the foundations right, i.e., values, qualifications, dharma, understanding the terminology (Tattva Bodh) and karma yoga (Bhagavad Gita). This is covered in the first stage of self-inquiry (srvanna), the texts are the first five chapters of Essence of Enlightenment and/or How to Attain Enlightenment, The Yoga of Love (Bhakti Sutras) and the first five chapters of the Bhagavad Gita. The Second stage (manana) is covered in the next five chapters of Essence and How to Attain, the Bhagavad Gita as well as Aparokshanubhuti, most of the Upanishads, Vivekachudamani and The Yoga of the Three Energies (teaching on the gunas). The final stage of inquiry, (nididhysana), is covered in the last 6 chapters of Essence, the last 6 chapters of How to Attain, the last five chapters of Bhagavad Gita, Inquiry into Existence (Panchadasi), as well as the Mandukya Karika. I explain this all in more detail in my forthcoming improved satsang on what self-inquiry entails, which I am about to post.
As I said, self-inquiry is not like taking a degree at university with a standard curriculum and goal to succeed at. You are not going to ‘achieve’ enlightenment. Once signed on to the sadhana, you are no longer in charge. Isvara is. But every inquirer is different and thus has different needs. The only things that are a standard requirement for each inquirer are that they are qualified, surrendered to Isvara with karma yoga, and dedicated to moksa. If you have the required faith in the teachings and are truly dedicated, Isvara is the deciding factor on whether moksa obtains. Nothing the jiva ‘does’ is going to achieve this. There are no guarantees and no goals to achieve because you are already the Self. All Vedanta can do for you is give you the tools to apply to your mind so that Self-knowledge can do the work of removing ignorance, setting you permanently free of suffering.
It sounds to me like you think you must do this yourself. But the doer does not get enlightened nor can it do its way to enlightenment. The doer is the problem. Yes, you must be very dedicated to your sadhana, no doubt about that. And that is a kind of doing, but a very different doing because it involves karma yoga. As I said, self-inquiry is not easy, there are no short cuts. But karma yoga and trust in Isvara will get you ‘there’, where you are already, if it is Isvara’s will. Only Self-knowledge can remove ignorance, not the ego.
And importantly, though all three stages of self-inquiry must be completed if moksa is your main motivation, most inquirers will cycle through each stage as the knowledge assimilates. Very often, after years, sometimes even decades, an inquirer in the last sate of self-inquiry, the nididhysana stage, must go back to the beginning to requalify because something is holding them back. Usually, it is related to unconscious jiva patterns, such as in Stan’s case, some qualification that is still missing, or some part of the teaching was not fully assimilated. To this end, we have a goldmine of material freely available on Shiningworld website, and we offer our guidance and help through email and skype.
Om and prem
Thank you for your answer and the time you’re taking for.
Danielle: Apparently didn’t communicate my thinking well. I was not complaining but just sharing my experience to illustrate how I had per moment the sensation to drown in front of the amount of information on Shiningworld, and I believe it could be less rough based on my knowledge of websites. My commentary was in the sense of serving the gold and not pushing it down. I’m seeking for 10 years and to have found you was a relief. But it looks like it is good enough as it is for you as feedback and a statement for something you didn’t ask for. I apologize because it was me who was rough at the end.
Sundari: There is no need for an apology, I do appreciate your input. It is good to know that some beginners are overwhelmed by the gold. It makes sense. I am working on a new document that we will post on our ‘New to Vedanta’ page. I will send it to you as soon as I have finished it. We do already have the steps to self-inquiry posted in our satsang section, I have posted it many times over the years. I just posted it again recently, if you had searched our satsang section under that topic you would have found it.
I said this above, but I repeat it here as it’s important: It is very good that you are taking your sadhana so seriously, but keep in mind that it does not work to rush self-inquiry. Vedanta is the most rigorous and challenging process and will challenge everything you thought you knew. It is not something you ‘get’ overnight, which is why it appeals to so few people. Only a mature and pure mind is capable of assimilating self-knowledge, therefore Vedanta is so adamant about the qualifications. Make sure you understand what they are and track yourself on them on a daily basis.
It will take a while to train the mind to think differently and logically according to the scripture, and not to your hard-wired jiva conditioning. It is a human tendency to want to simplify things according to the mind’s own framework, but this will not work if you are serious about moksa. The dualistic mind is upside down, and Vedanta corrects that reversal, but it takes time and dedication. So, go slowly. Vedanta is not something you can study, as I said before because it is about YOU, who you really are. You need to assimilate and understand the logic every step of the way to get the ‘big picture”.
Danielle: I have to say the way you presented how the teaching is organized between srvranna, manana, and nidhyasana put all the light I was looking for clearly understanding how it works. I’m very thankful for that because now I know…
Sundari: I am very happy to hear that. As I said, if you had used our search function on the satsang section, you would have found that information earlier. But you are right, we will make it more obvious on the home page.
Danielle: For sure the ahamkara is still limping behind and can be goal-oriented as you are pointing out. But lines are moving very fast with the high quality of your teaching. I know very well James is one of the best teachers in the world at this moment and being really grateful and thankful for all the work you’re doing. Your email changed my perspective and I’m going to reorganize myself to be more focused on James’ teaching and less going left or right.
Sundari: If you truly want to succeed at self-inquiry, you will need to put all other teachings on the shelf, at least for now. No other teaching other than Vedanta has the full teaching on Satya and mithya. If you do not know better, you will swallow ignorance along with knowledge because many teachings do not know the difference and teach ignorance as knowledge. You can trust Vedanta, it will set you free if you have a burning desire, stick with the program, and develop all the qualifications.
Danielle: For sure I will come back to you when I have finished the full round.
Love is always,
Sundari: I am happy to help you with your self-inquiry, do not hesitate to write if you get stuck or have questions. You must be properly taught, it is not possible to work everything out on your own. We cannot do self-inquiry for you, but it is essential that you work with a qualified teacher or you can get lost or misinterpret some of the teachings. Vedanta is very subtle and counterintuitive. It contains seeming paradoxes that are not actual paradoxes when properly unfolded by a teacher. Vedanta is designed to raise doubts, but it also answers them.
Love,
Sundari
