CC: Ha 🙂 , no, I cannot disappear – and you actually answered a good part of what I wasn’t sure of: how the guna’s have their particular dynamics and in this case, after so much output, tamas came along, and sleep, rest and doing nothing was the only natural course.
Sundari: Managing the gunas well is dependent on understanding what they are and how predictably they work. There are times when there is no way to say no to tamas, though for those of us who tend to run on rajasic/sattvic fuel, that is not always easy to surrender to, especially if the balance tends toward rajas. But Isvara will then simply load up more tamas, and if you keep resisting and trying to avoid it, burn out or worse is in inevitably in store.
On the other hand, if you don’t manage tamas with rajas, sattva will become inaccessible. A deeply tamasic mind is not a good place to be – and this is reflected not only in a dull sluggish mind. People often miss recognising tamas, sometimes even confusing it with sattva, because rajas is not strong. It can give the illusion of being peaceful., sattvic Like the feelgood of a drug like dope, among others. Tamas makes the mind stupid and blind to what is really in front of it. The effects of excessive tamas take longer to manifest, but they are every bit as destructive to peace of mind as excessive rajas.
If tamas and rajas are controlled by sattva, they are both very efficient energies. Sattvic rajas is behind discipline, focus and clear eyed (NOT manic) efficiency. Sattvic tamas, especially working with sattvic rajas, provides endurance, a focussed, disciplined but unworried mind. You are a disciple unto the Self. And of course, tamas is essential for sleep. The brain runs on electricity, and unless the neural pathways switch from beta, which is the fast alert energy we need for activity, thinking and planning, to alpha, a lower frequency which sattva and tamas induce, you won’t be able to slow down, meditate or sleep.
So if rajas or tamas consistently overpower sattva, beware. Your mind will fragment and your life will self-destruct very fast. But getting stuck in sattva can be the most insidious of all because it seems like such a desired end goal. While peace of mind is the goal, it’s not moksa. Spiritual specialness is a definite pitfall for the mind, and when it is entrenched, is as nasty as too much tamas or rajas.
CC: Now, after rest, my mind has the guna’s more evenly spread again, although still a bit tamasic. But that is nothing new either and a good part of my mind is pretty tamasic; more so then I once thought. It’s ok, it’s jiva’s make up – mentally sattva/tamas.
Sundari: As long as sattva is in charge most of the time, tamas has a lot of upsides aside from sleep, as mentioned above. It gives endurance, patience and accommodation far more bandwidth and staying power.
CC: Mostly I feel rajas physically more than mentally, which makes it easy for physical work. But this time around it was both physical and mentally – lot’s of thinking, writing and faster than usual and full of internal dialogue.
Sundari: Rajas is the high energy guna, and it is great to use when it does not take over the mind/intellect. It is good as a servant when needed, but a very bad master. More like a neurotic race horse out of control. It your neaural ciruits are firing mostly on rajas – you will be stuck in stress, hypervigilance and mental looping. Burnt out is guaranteed.
CC: So, yes, from Self’s perspective there isn’t a difference, but from jiva’s there is and here the fun also came; two visions simultaneously, cracking jokes with Ishvara. Ishvara has a bit of a different voice then jiva has and if I write it down they aren’t that funny, but while painting, Ishvara goes like ; ‘ Ah, so you think I need to be whitened up, again? ‘ Jiva; Yes, you cannot seem to stay white on walls, only when you are snowing you seem to get it right.’
Ishvara; ‘How so? The paint is white like my snow! ‘
Jiva; Sure, but it doesn’t remain white! So now I have to ‘wash’ you up; some job you gave me, remember?’
Ishvara ‘ That is not my fault, people mess up my wall’s white…’
Jiva ‘ Whatever, here you go Ishi ! ‘ and I rolled the walls all white, smiling all day long.
Sundari: It’s fun to personalize if you objectify and understand the difference and the sameness between Isvara/Jiva.
CC: It was a positive ride, and I wondered how someone like Chinmaya, who had quite a lot of rajas, had no problem with it whatsoever. What I mean to say is; this rajasic episode I took, more than usual, to tackle the idea that it extraverts which isn’t helpful per se. But, no guna stands in the way really and so
Sundari: Chinmaya absolutely had no problem with rajas but used it to great and maximum effect for the purpose Isvara gave him to complete. His was a very large life, and he had a big job to do. Like anyone who uses rajas a great deal, it wore him out. He did what he had to do and to accomplish it he needed a lot of rajas. I’s that simple. But he still paid the price physically, though you can be sure he never identified with any of the three gunas being the Self.
CC: I had a chance to step out of a kind of bias towards rajas. A sense of sattva remained in all stages it seemed, or I was easy enough to not be bothered by the whole ride. In fact it was full of joy 🙂 Once tamas ‘kicked in’ I didn’t change, of course, and neither was I unhappy. Just dull, and fine.
Sundari: By “I” you refer to the jiva. The Self is never involved either way; just the witness. I sometimes get the feeling that James is biased towards rajas as he tends to sattva/tamas as well. But he is not really because he is fully aware that all the gunas are mere objects that can be manipulated with knowledge for the jiva to achieve certain ends, and to have a good life.
CC: But if one is fine and actually feels this, while tamasic, then I thought, it must be that there is also sattva present or it is like deep sleep, which is tamas but not at all a problem: that is my question.
Sundari: Sattva is the true nature of the mind and never not present, just not accessible when rajas or tamas dominate and obscure it. How would you know that ‘you’ (as a jiva) are happy/unhappy/unaffected unless sattva is present? Sattva is not the Self but it is the guna for intelligence and clarity, and the springboard for Self-knowledge.
Deep sleep feels good because the mind/intellect is subsumed into the Causal body. ISleep is needed so that the body/mind can rest and repair, which is essentail. However, the feelgood feeling from sleeping comes from the fact that the Subtle body is resting in bliss – beyond the reach of vasanas/gunas. But deep sleep is pure tamoguna because there is no knowledge at all that the mind is resting in the Self.
As we all know, without enough sleep the mind destroys itself and the body would eventually fall apart and die. The mind just cannot be ‘on’ all the time. The weight of the gunas/vasanas on the mind, the force and wear and tear of duality, is just too much
CC: I see the guna’s a bit like a fractal function. And sattva can also be quite extraverted, it seems. Is that true?
Sundari: Yes, indeed. Take Chinmaya – his rajas was entirely in the employ of sattva, and look what a dynamo he was! It’s a very fine line though, without Self-knowledge. Both rajas and tamas have very positive aspects, but all three gunas have serious downsides too.
CC: It reminds me of satyaloka, but in my case not so ‘holy’, although all is. Or the Sattvic bliss. It depends, I suppose, in what way any experience is interpreted, and to what degree Self-knowledge is boss.
Sundari: As stated above, sattvic bliss is very desirable but can be as much of a prison as any of the gunas out of balance. Still, you want sattva to dominate rajas and tamas or you have big trouble. When you manage the gunas accordingly, ALL experiences are seen through the lens of Self-knowledge. Though circumstances make them seem to change, they always play out in the same predictable ways. It’s not rocket science, but it is very subtle and tricky to stay objective because Maya is so powerful.
CC: Also, after resting and to my surprise, I suddenly saw my attachment to Vedanta together with the ‘throw away’ of it. Now both are true.
Sundari: You can only throw away Vedanta when you know what it is – a means to an end. When you realize you have always been the beginning, middle and end, that there was nothing to ‘get’ only ignorance to lose, what’s the big deal? You don’t need crutches when you don’t have a broken leg. But that doesn’t mean you ever stop enjoying the scripture because it is known to be the Song of the Self.
CC: It is – to my mind – always an amazing matter; how not-knowing leads to so much trouble and/or speculation while knowing is so real and normal that I need not think at all.
Sundari: Ah, yes. Maya is the ultimate illusionist, and very good at deception – normalizing the abnormal, and abnormalizing the normal.
CC: I hope I make sense … 🙂 My mind isn’t perfect but it doesn’t need to be, and I like to think, align all thoughts with the Vedanta, for it always makes sense.
Sundari: You always make perfect sense
Much love
Sundari
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