Thanks for the support. Might we say that there is a momentum that gets us to Self-realization that some of us forget to drop upon obtaining, not realizing we have left a very dangerous string attached? The confidence gets co-opted and serves the wrong purpose.
Sundari: If Self-realization obtains, it is not moksa; it is the experiential realization of Awareness and where the ‘work’ of self-inquiry begins. Self-actualization, living as the Self free of the jiva, is quite another matter from Self-realization. No, there is not a momentum that ‘gets you to’ moksa unless you ascribe that momentum to the grace of Isvara. Moksa is not a destination, it is who you are. The string still attached to the jiva is the doer who ‘survived’ moksa and is now a confident and ‘enlightened ego’. The one who ‘forgets’ to ‘drop’ the ‘momentum’ because it thought moksa was something to gain. It is the dropper that needs to be dropped.
Diana: Thanks for the support and camaraderie about the ES. I’m having a good laugh about it. Indeed, I want Moksha, so am willing to make the necessary jiva tendency adjustments.
Sundari: ES is funny until it’s not. An ego determined to survive can be adept at faking acknowledging it has ES. But if you are truly determined to be free of the jiva there is no other way than through continued self-inquiry. The hardest and subtlest part of self-inquiry is to negate the last vestiges of the jiva. Though the jiva remains as Isvara made it, for the most part—even with moksa, and we must love it unconditionally, nevertheless, satya & mithya is duality if you think the jiva is as real as the Self. Taking a stand as the Self means the jiva is as good as non-existent. You are Self. You are not The Self and the jiva. While most self-realized people know this intellectually, actualizing it is far from simple, which is why nididhysana is usually the longest stage of self-inquiry.
Diana: I am well aware of my tendency to talk a lot and since my work requires communication, and I enjoy it, it is a challenge for me to know when to keep quiet. It’s something I’ve been working on for years and in many cases, my discipline is successful, but not this time! In reality, I am someone open to learning as my first emails suggested, but I outsmarted myself at the first opportunity to hear what you had to teach me beyond what I may or may not have already known.
You had already told me several times that you could not really fault my knowledge after my initial emails and the more detailed attachments I sent you, but for some reason, I overlooked that fact and just kept spewing my knowledge as if talking about the knowledge ad nauseum was what self-actualized people do. When our Zoom meeting opened, what I should have said was nothing or at most asked the question “Now what?”. At some point, one of you asked me if I had any questions. I said not really, but if I hadn’t been so full of myself I would have asked, “If my knowledge is good, how to proceed with my nididhyasana?”. The value of Vedanta and its teachers is proving itself, once again. My ego had its last hurrah by so blatantly making an example of itself, but now I have to prove it.
Sundari: Which ‘I’ is it that needs to prove ‘it’? Prove what to whom? Do you see the duality in that statement? Just because your knowledge of the scripture is good means nothing in itself. So what? Moksa is not about getting a Ph.D. in scripture knowledge. If Self-knowledge has truly obtained by the grace of Isvara, there is nothing to say about it and certainly, nothing to prove to anyone because there is only you, the nondual Self.
Diana: Before now I may have had the knowledge in my hand, but I was misunderstanding how to wield it. I am grateful for your supportive and compassionate teaching.
Sundari: What do you mean by having the knowledge ‘in hand’? And again, who does the ‘I ‘ refer to in this statement? We are not pointing out that you misunderstood how to wield the knowledge because you are not a Vedanta teacher, and nor are we trying to turn out good Vedanta students. Our job as teachers is to guide inquirers by unfolding the true meaning of the scripture so that it can work on the mind to remove ignorance. Freedom has nothing to do with how well you wield the knowledge or if you have the svadharma to teach.
You can be totally free with little scripture knowledge other than the hard and fast knowledge I AM the Self and not the jiva. Moksa as well as teaching happens if Isvara wants it to. We fulfill the service as Vedanta teachers because it is our svadharma to do so, but teaching is not an identity because only Isvara does the teaching. You are an advanced inquirer who has misunderstood what freedom actually means for the jiva. The ego identity is still alive and well.
Diana: Even though you are not telling me anything new here, I appreciate no end your telling it to me again, especially when you said how tiring it can be to have to repeatedly tell someone what you have already laid out for them.
Sundari: You say that none of this is new to you, and that may be true intellectually. But is it really true? I admire your honesty and the way you responded to this email, but there is still a certain glib certitude that you are speaking as the Self that is slightly off-key. As the jiva, your communication is always impressive. But freedom is not about being an impressive jiva.
Diana: It’s beautiful writing landing in an open heart and mind. And so, the end becomes the beginning. Now what? What are your suggestions or explicit instructions for me to carry on? Much love and gratitude.
Sundari: Freedom means there is no more ‘now what’ for you. You are the ‘now what’. You are no longer a ‘who’ that wants moksa. You are not going anywhere or gaining anything. You have not arrived because you never left. You are simply where you always were but recognizing it for the first time for what it is. And it’s no big deal.
There are no more beginnings nor ends, though there seem to be for the jiva. There is just you, and you have no beginning nor end, the ever-present unconditioned witness of the conditioned entity. Life is something that happens for the jiva and has nothing to do with you, though at the same time, life improves immeasurably for the jiva because it is seated in the Self and never budges from there. The conceptual jiva is negated and has ‘become’ Jivatman.
The only purpose of Self-knowledge is to situate you in the I, in Existence. And what is knowledge? It isn’t a thing but the absence of ignorance. Vedanta doesn’t give you experiences or anything else because you already are what you are experiencing. You are what you want. There is no experience superior to being you, Existence Shining as Awareness. When Self-knowledge removes the last vestige of ignorance, the ‘leftover knowledge’ is not the knowledge of me. If it is, moksa has not obtained. It is me, Awareness. I have not gained any knowledge. Both knowledge and ignorance are objects known to me.
The subject/object split is totally dissolved, never to be seen again. There is the appearance of a subject and an object that is produced by ignorance, duality, but you know it is just a mirage and it does not bother you at all. You are not steering the life and body of the jiva. Isvara is steering the whole show for the jiva. You have an extremely self-assured jiva, which is great. But I think where your inquiry ran short is in understanding Isvara/Maya, and what that means for the jiva. It is the key to moksa. If you have not read the Mandukya Karika, I would advise you to do so. Also, Inquiry into Existence. Both are advanced texts specifically unfolding the very subtle teachings on the Isvara-Jiva identity.
But what I think may have happened is that you skipped some of the foundations of self-inquiry and moved too fast into nididhysana. It could also be that you think you are finished with nididhysana, and that is not the case. Nididhysana is about requalifying, going back to the beginning, and starting from scratch, first with the qualifications, motivations, values, etc. We have all three stages of inquiry on offer for free on the Shiningworld website. I have attached a satsang James wrote on what we call the 5-10-15 rule.
Much love
Sundari
