Christine: I have a question. I listened to Rory’s satsang which was lovely. The prior week Ramji discussed that the subject-object teaching is a ruse to get people to be able to take the next step which is that everything is consciousness so, therefore, everything is real (although the objects are apparently real). I’m wondering when the teachers will begin to focus more on this notion.
I remember when I was at one of the Trout Lake satsangs, the topic was Mandyuka (my favorite) and Ramji dropped the bomb that everything was real. All of us were a little miffed because it took so long to get the subject-object teaching and location of objects assimilated and now he was changing the goal post. LOL He had a good laugh. But I know, personally, it’s taken some time to disabuse myself of the subject-object teaching in favor of the non-dual teaching, which by the way I had a direct experience of yesterday after numerous readings of Ramji’s most recent satsang. So just wondering if that will become a focus of future satsangs.
Sundari: Vedanta as a means of knowledge is a progressive teaching with a methodology designed to meet the inquirer where they are at in their understanding. The whole Vedanta pramana is a setup, it provisionally accepts duality in order to negate it, so teaches the cause and effect teaching first. But even the more advanced teachings must eventually be dropped as they are a means to an end – the removal of ignorance.
The problem with teaching Vedanta the way we do is that most people are at a different level of qualifications and of assimilation. We do not have structured classes as one would have in an ashram situation. Our sangha is worldwide and always changing. New people come in all the time, so we cycle through the teachings.
The fact is it does take a long time for most inquirers to assimilate the subject-object teaching. So much depends on qualifications, dedication to inquiry and being properly taught. We are often astounded by the fact that many long time inquirers have not assimilated this teaching yet, along with most of the basic foundations to inquiry. Because of this, most people are not ready for the non-origination teaching because it’s too advanced.
That all is Consciousness is stated right up front in fact, because Vedanta tells you straight up that you are the Self, you depend on nothing to exist and everything has a dependent existence on you. The problem is what does this mean, and how to apply this teaching in your experience of life. It is not easy to dismantle the conceptual jiva identity. Thus, karma yoga, guna yoga are necessary. How else does one understand what the apparent reality is, and the identity between Isvara and jiva? That is where all the teaching takes place. So, we do our best, focusing on the topics and teachings where people get stuck, which are always related to this problem.
For people who are more qualified, they do not need all this teaching. Nondual vision dissolves the subject/object split for good. But even then, there is usually some nididhysana necessary because not all the jiva tendencies are purified and there is still some residual ignorance. If you don’t mind living with a pesky troublesome jiva, you can say, well so what? I am the Self, that’s all that matters. Who cares about the jiva, it’s not real. All well and good. If it’s not the Advaita shuffle and you genuinely don’t care, and are not causing injury to yourself or ‘anyone’ else, in thought word and deed.
Like I said in my talk last night, if only it could be so easy. We could all go home and have fun! But it’s not easy to rid the mind of all ignorance, and the ego identity is an entrenched tyrant until it is rooted out. And that does not mean the jiva has to change or be perfected. It just means the teachings transform the desire driven, agitated or dull mind into a pleasant, satisfied and happy one. Moksa is freedom from and for the jiva. As Consciousness you cannot become more the Self or more free because you are never not the Self and have never been bound. If this fact assimilates, then yes, you see and understand that everything is ‘real’ in that it’s all you. But you are not it.
Sounds simple but it is not. For some it is enough just to employ karma yoga and a rudimentary knowledge of the gunas to live a relatively stress free life.
Much love
Sundari
