Richard: You wrote in your response “the word Saint refers to someone who has both realized and actualized the Self.” Could you clarify the distinction between ‘realizing’ and ‘actualizing’ the Self, if there is one?
Sundari: Self-realisationis where the work of Self-inquiry begins. Self-realization is an experience, and because all experience occurs in time, no experience can become permanent, all experiences will end. Experience is therefore not real in the light of Vedanta, which is that which is always present and never changes. Only Awareness fits that definition. Meaning one can ‘lose’ one’s Self-realisation, if the knowledge “I am whole and complete, actionless, unchanging, unlimited, ordinary Awareness” is not fully assimilated, meaning you understand what that means for the jiva. It is one thing to know that your true nature is Awareness, which is called indirect knowledge. It is quite another to live free of the person as the Self 24/7, which is direct knowledge. This distinction is clear in the satsang on the steps to self-inquiry, which I am sure I sent you.
To be fully Self-actualized means: (1) One has fully discriminated the Self from the objects appearing in you. An object is anything other than you, meaning all gross objects as well as one’s conditioning, thoughts, and feelings—all experience. (2) Self-knowledge has (a) rendered all binding vasanas non-binding and (b) fully negated one’s sense of doership. I.e., your identity as the Self is the default position of the mind and you never confuse yourself with the jiva again, not even for a second.
Richard: It was also reassuring to read that you and Ramji actively discourage seekers from becoming avid followers, as I guess in many ways it can lead to a form of Spiritual dependency. Offering the teachings in a spirit of friendship seems a far more noble approach. That said, is it not somewhat inevitable that any teacher/Guru with a platform and message will naturally amass followers and become an idol of worship given the propensity of humans to seek a saviour?
Sundari: Yes, people who lack all the qualifications for self-inquiry tend to project specialness onto the guru without realizing how dualistic that attitude is. While it is important to have the right attitude of respect for the guru who is a symbol of the Self and the Eternal Sampradaya, it is also important to see that you are non-different from them as the Self. A genuine Vedanta teacher will simply not allow guru worship because they see you as the Self too.
Richard: Lastly, could I ask a general question on how a Spiritual teacher measures their effectiveness? With so many teachers, courses and programs in the “spiritual marketplace,” how does a student discern which path to follow?
Sundari: We don’t measure our effectiveness because we are not identified with being the teacher. If we were doing so, what kind of teachers would be? Certainly, we would not qualify as Vedanta teachers. Where would karma yoga come into it? It would be the ego teaching, not the Self. The teachings are not ours. Isvara is the only teacher, we are just mouthpieces. Our job is simply to unfold the teachings correctly according to the level of the inquirer’s understanding. It is up to the inquirer to ‘do the work’, and ultimately, up to Isvara if the teachings assimilate, It all depends on how qualified an inquirer is and also if the student is dedicated to their sadhana with the requisite faith in the teachings. If they are not, no amount of teaching helps until all the qualifications are present. A discerning inquirer is an inquirer with the requisite qualifications.
All the same, in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. For those who do not know how to discriminate between satya (real, always present and unchanging/the Self) and mithya (apparently real, not always present and always changing, the world/jiva), run the risk of falling prey to a bad teacher is pretty good in the spiritual supermarket. By bad I don’t necessarily mean one who sets out to delude, though there are those too. I mean one who does not know the difference between satya and mithya, between ignorance and knowledge. Or worse, one who teaches ignorance as knowledge. Even many fairly good teachers who do not have the full grasp of the teachings, or who have not cleared up their jiva stuff, mix ignorance with knowledge. If you as their disciple don’t know the difference, you will swallow ignorance as knowledge and get confused.
Vedanta requires faith in the teachings as the primary qualification because without it, you will not commit to them and self-inquiry simply will not bear fruit. You will keep comparing Vedanta to other teachings and get hopelessly tied up in knots. Vedanta does not require blind faith but faith pending the outcome of your investigation. If you do not have faith, you will still be shopping around looking for the ‘best’ teacher or teaching, which it sounds like you are doing. I think you need to work on the foundation of the teachings, especially on the qualifications.
The only way you can be sure if you can trust a teacher is if they stick to the teachings and make sure you understand that they have nothing to do with them. That they tell you upfront there is nothing wrong with you, there is only something wrong with your thinking. And of course, the ultimate test of whether a teaching works or not is if your life as a jiva is improving. In the case of Vedanta, it will if you are qualified, are taught properly and are applying the teachings to your life. Are you becoming less fearful, less needy, chasing objects for happiness less? Are the intractable problems in your life becoming less important, less problematical?
If the teachings are purely in your head and do not translate into your life, there will be no change. If there is no improvement in your mental state and your life, you are either not qualified for Vedanta, and/or not dedicated to self-inquiry. Or you do not have a good Vedanta teacher, are confused, and constantly shopping around for answers.
But if you are a dedicated and qualified inquirer totally committed to applying the teachings and have the extraordinarily good grace to have found a qualified Vedanta teacher, such as you have in Ramji and me, you can thank your lucky stars because this is by the grace of Isvara.
Richard: Could I also schedule an appointment with you or Ramji if possible.
Sundari: Yes, we do skype or zoom by donation.
Om
Sundari
