Sally: Sorry to not have been more specific on my question, but I was more wandering about a traditional way of learning, as it exists, I guess, in the way of teaching in the Shankara Sampradaya. For example, how people can memorize the full Gita, as it seems Ramji have done so?
Sundari: Self-inquiry is the application of the teachings of Vedanta to the life of the jiva. Once Self-knowledge is firm, the teachings are no longer required. They are a means to an end. When we use a map to get to a destination, we no longer require the map. Self-knowledge is not a destination because it is already who you are. However, we still need a map because ignorance of our true nature is tenacious. Vedanta is that map and it removes ignorance but it has requirements, as explained in our last exchange, such as that the inquirer is qualified, follows the methodology of the teachings, and is taught by a qualified teacher. And yes, Self-inquiry requires memorizing the teachings because nothing can be assimilated unless it is first stored in memory.
But Self-knowledge has nothing to do with memory because it is about who you are and always have been. You cannot become the Self or gain the Self because you are the Self. Self-knowledge is simply the removal of ignorance standing in the way of you appreciating your full nature as the Self. In essence, all you need for moksa is to have not just memorized but assimilated the basic teaching of Vedanta, which is: I am whole and complete, non-dual, actionless, ever-present, ordinary Awareness and not the body/mind, which is an object known to me. An object is anything known to me, be it material or immaterial. Therefore, the joy is not in any object, it is in Me. There is nothing to seek because I am the sought.
While that sounds pretty simple, it is not because of the tenacity of ignorance. Hence the methodology of Vedanta addresses each layer of ignorance an inquirer must inquire into. A good memory is essential along with qualifications, but it is not memory per se that provides the ability to know. Memory is just recollected knowledge. Experience happens followed by knowledge and then memory (retention) happens, or not. However, it is Awareness in the form of sattva that provides us with the ability to know. What we know depends on the purity of the mind, which is conditioned by the gunas. Ignorance (rajas and tamas) is removed from the mind by Self-knowledge (sattva), which is not a function of memory as stated above because it is who we are.
You cannot forget Self-knowledge once you know the Self is you, meaning direct knowledge, just as you can’t forget your name, for instance, unless the mind is impaired, such as having amnesia. If the Self is an object of memory (indirect knowledge) you can forget who you are because object knowledge is subject to memory. Memory is a tool for evaluating experience, but it is not capable of producing Self-knowledge.
The Causal Body can be seen as Macrocosmic Universal memory in that the vasanas look like memory because they generate experience. In that way, the Causal Body is the repository of all memory from the beginning of ‘time’. The vasanas are different from memory though because the Causal Body is active memory, whereas the Subtle Body or microcosmic memory (individual unconscious) is passive. Its function is to store and recollect information. Experience is no good without memory. If you can’t remember what you experience you cannot evaluate experience.
Animals, for instance, don’t have a memory function because they have no intellect. They follow instinctive group knowledge, which is a kind of memory stored in the collective mind of the species, so they seem to remember, but they don’t really. They act and react instinctively to the Field. All animals, birds and insects, and even the world of micro-organisms are just programmes run by Isvara, the gunas. Though they seem to have memory, it is the vasanas that are operating, not memory because they do not evaluate what happens to them and in their environment, whereas humans who have intellects do.
As far as teaching Vedanta goes, to qualify as a qualified teacher of Vedanta one must understand and be able to unfold the complete teachings of Vedanta to assist an inquirer at every step of their self-inquiry, which definitely requires a good memory. The satsang on the steps of self-inquiry I sent you clarifies what this entails, and it is good that you understand the importance of the methodology. What this means for means the teacher is that he/she has a complete understanding of the big picture, meaning all the teachings as well as the methodology of the teachings. But this does not necessarily mean that the qualified teacher has memorized every text verbatim, especially the puranic texts, such as the Bhagavad Gita. But they will know the essence of each text and be able to unfold it correctly. James cannot recite the whole Bhagavad Gita from memory, very few Vedanta teachers could do that. But they can certainly teach it because it is simply Vedanta in code.
Many years ago there were people in India called chaturvedis, which is a person who has memorized all four Vedas and can chant them from memory. They would travel to far-flung villages and be there for several days, sometimes not sleeping or eating, while they performed their oral transmission from memory. I doubt that there are many of them still in existence today, but they were not uncommon in India up until the end of the 20th century, or early 21st, I think, though I may be wrong. There may well still be some of them around as India is such an extraordinary culture. If you interested in knowing more about them, read William Dalrymple’s book “Nine Lives” as it tells the story of nine extraordinary kinds of Indian people and their rituals. The charturvedis is one of them.
Gael: Another question came strongly, and I wonder if you can answer it. It is about the non-distance between Me and the mind because, for example, I can see a thought coming and living, and I can also know when there is no thought. For this to be possible it needs a gap, a distance between Me and the subtle body, no?
Sundari: Well, first of all, who is it that sees the thought? Is it the mind observing itself, or is it the Self observing the mind? There is a difference, though ultimately, of course, everything comes down to the Self, Consciousness observing itself. Thoughts are subtle objects and therefore, not-self. But they arise from the Self, so they are the same, but different. If you observe the thought as the Self, there is no space between you and it because it arises and dissolves in you. A thought is you, but you are not it. That is nondual vision. If you observe the thought as the ego and you are aware that you are doing so, then there is a space between you and it. That is called being objective about the content of your mind.
It is important to understand that the Self, being nondual, makes seeing possible but itself does not see anything but itself. Awareness is not a ’seer’ in the sense we understand that word. It would be more appropriate to say that the Self, seeing only itself, is that which knows the seer with reference to the seen only when Maya is operating. The Self-aware self appears as a seer; but it never actually is a seer, unless seeing refers to its own Self. When ignorance is operating the jiva thinks that the seer is different from the seen: the subject and object are different. The seer, Isvara is also known as saguna brahman, and because it operates Maya (the gunas) it is never deluded by them, i.e., it is pure sattva. When tamas and rajas arise in saguna brahman, then pure Awareness apparently becomes a jiva and is deluded by Maya. Sattva seems to be clear and pure… only with reference to the objects appearing in it, which are impure. Isvara is the wielder of Maya but is never deluded by it. Purity and holiness are projected by the jiva when it is under the spell of sattva.
The Self is never constrained to or limited by the senses or sense organs – it is that which illuminates and makes them capable of perception. Here is the teaching on how the perception of anything happens:
Gross objects require Consciousness to be known. Human objects require Consciousness to know anything, a functioning mind, and sensory instruments. When you look at an object the subtle body (mind) sends out a thought. Consciousness shines on the Subtle body illumining the senses, which in turn, illumes the object. But the Subtle body plus the thought or ray of consciousness is inert. Consciousness is delivered to objects through the mechanical process of reflected Consciousness shining on or bounding off a conscious or sentient being or jiva (mind). Thus, experience takes place. If you cannot see a material object no thought can reach it. So, you have no experience of it. Like gross objects, subtle objects like thoughts and feelings are also known in the mind by Consciousness shining on and in the mind. Therefore, all experience of objects is nothing more than a thought which takes place only in the mind, nowhere else.
If you are identified with the body-mind then you believe that all that can be experienced are objects, that objects are separate from you, even though you are only ever experiencing Awareness. The whole point of the teachings is to make clear the fact that Awareness can never be an object of perception and, that for the Self, there are no objects, as explained above. All objects subtle (thoughts/feelings) and gross (material) merely have an apparent existence and are not real (mithya), meaning, not which is not always present and always changing. You, the Self (satya) are the one non-negatable factor that is always present and unchanging. Thus, moksa boils down to discriminating satya from mithya automatically, 24/7.
I hope this answers your questions
Om Shanti,
Sundari
