Sundari:  Yes, Google does not always do a great job of translating. We have a young man from Peru who speaks Spanish and has a very good grasp of the teachings.  If you like, I can put you in touch with him, let me know and I will ask him if is prepared to help. The ‘phantom self’ is a good way to describe the identification with the personal identity, or body/mind, because that identity is a phantom.  It is only a conceptual entity, nothing more than a thought appearing in the mind. Both the mind and the thoughts appearing in it are objects known to you, the Self.

Jacob: As I think I told you, long ago I had a free sample of what the authentic I is, thanks to an experience that lasted a few days, which has prompted me since then to find my true reality. The road has been apparently long until I found “End of Dream by Shams” and then continued with Shiningworld, where I continue to read Satsangs. I have no doubt that here is the truth, it is not only a matter of faith, but I am sure that this is the truth.

Sundari:  All we are ever experiencing is the Self, and the problem with heightened spiritual experiences like the one you had is they tend to convince us that moksa, freedom, is a special experience.  Which it definitely is not. The Self is who you are. Your true or real identity, is the only truth there is that never changes and is always present. Everything else is just a dream because it comes and goes. You are the knower of the dream. Therefore moksa, or freedom from the identification with the small self, is not an object of experience, and not something you gain. The experience of the Self is also who you are, but it is just the reflection in a pure mind which occurs when the veil of ignorance obscuring it lifts momentarily . The reflection is you but you are not it – just like the image in the mirror is you but is not you.

Jacob: However, the apparent time passes and I only find the reflection of my true Self, when I read some of these scriptures, which resonate with me to be in the truth without any doubt.

Sundari: As stated above, the personal identity is just a reflection of the Self, though its true essence is the Self. When you are deluded by the reflection and you take that to be who you are, you are under the spell of Maya, or ignorance. But when you see the reflection as the Self, as non-different from you as the Self but also not quite the same, that is nondual vision. The reflection depends on you to exist, but you depend on nothing because you are Existence – with a big ‘E’.

Jacob: The rest of the time that I share with Family, work, etc… It seems as if I forgot about this although I sometimes try to remember to discriminate Satya from Mithya, but I think I get immersed in Maya and I get lost.

Sundari: The test of Self-knowledge is in how we live and relate to ‘others’ because that is where Maya deludes us most. If the teachings do not translate into your life, what good are they to you? Intellectual knowledge is not enough and the pull of Maya can still obscure access to Self-knowledge.

Jacob: I believe that my Karma Yoga is not enough, nor my qualifications nor my discrimination, otherwise I would see clearly what is a dream and what is real.

Sundari: That is very possible, which is why we recommend that people follow the methodology of the teachings to the letter.  If you do not have a strong foundation, or some of the qualifications are weak, you will get stuck. The teachings of Vedanta are progressive and take the inquirer through all the logic, but the inquirer must follow the method. Very importantly, you need to be properly taught or the mind will interpret the teachings. You cannot read your way to freedom, which you may be trying to do.

Jacob: I spent a few years striving on this walk and I think this was the cause of my strong immersion in spirituality because I spent a lot of time and effort, but I ended up with nervous system and night sleep problems. As a conclusion, and after taking medication, I began to expend less energy and this significantly improved my sleep. I had to trade fervour for calm.

Sundari: The problem with many seekers is that though they have very strong spiritual vasanas, in trying so hard, there is a doer involved – a seeker. The doer is the problem. Vedanta is the knowledge that ends the quest for knowledge, so it ends the seeker identity. And that is not an easy identity to renounce. Though self-inquiry requires dedication and can be hard work, if it is done correctly, with karma yoga, then the doer surrenders to Isvara, to the scripture. Only the scripture is the boss.

The doer/ego, the one who acts to get results, can never free itself. You will never ‘do’ yourself to moksa. Only Self-knowledge itself can remove ignorance.  It is no wonder you became neurotic, and it is good that you have realized this. But perhaps you do not fully understand why because you are not actually following the methodology of the teachings properly. I can send you satsangs on this, but I think you should talk to Fernando.  I sent him the satsangs on the steps to self-inquiry, and perhaps he can translate them into Spanish for you.  I will ask him, if you like.

Jacob: My apparent life is quite simple today, in the morning I spend some time doing sports to exercise my body, then I spend some time exercising my mind, and then I spend time reading the aforementioned scriptures, and in the afternoon I go to work. I try to be humble, not to seek any conflict, and to cede the results of my apparent actions to Isvara.

Sundari: This is very important, good for you. We need a sattvic lifestyle that conforms to dharma if we are serious about self-inquiry.  It must be the most important thing in your life, everything else must be subservient to self-inquiry if freedom from suffering truly is your main aim.

Jacob: I have known for a long time who or what I really am and I believe I understand the Vedanta methodology as you teach it, but I continue on a practical level believing myself to be what I am not. Can you think of anything I can do to realize I’m not the one doing it? Is there anything in these words that suggests a change or, on the contrary, do I have to insist?


Sundari: There is no magic formula to freedom, Jacob. Moksa is not something you can achieve; it is grace. Ignorance is very subtle, it is tenacious and resistant to being removed. Everyone really knows they are the Self, but Self-realization is where the ‘work’ of self-inquiry BEGINS. For Self-knowledge to destroy ignorance and the Self to become your only reality is where all the teaching of Vedanta takes place. If you really are following the methodology of the teachings correctly, as you say you are, and applying the teachings to your life, no matter how many times ignorance returns, that is all you ‘do’. Trust the teachings to remove personal ignorance. In addition, as mentioned, you do need to be taught.

Jacob: Many times I have thought that I will achieve it even for a minute before leaving this body.

Sundari: Why wait to ‘leave’ the body when you have never been ‘in’ the body? You, the Self, are unborn and undying; you do not need moksa because you are moksa. The life or death of the body has nothing to do with you. The body/mind is just mithya, and all bodies are endlessly recycled in Isvara’s dream. As you said, the personal identity or small self is a phantom, which means not real. Real defined as that which is always present and unchanging, which only ever relates to you as Consciousness, the Self. That which shines on the body/mind making it appear to be conscious and ‘alive’.

Jacob: Is it possible or will I have to let everything take its course? In general, like Jacob, I have developed effort and patience during this apparent life, and this has given clear results in material life or Maya, but I don’t know if I have to apply it the same way to stop thinking that I am what I seem and not the real one. I, real, ordinary and unique Being.

Sundari;  You have no choice but to let ‘things take their course’. You cannot rush moksa. Whether you know it or not, you as the jiva are not in charge of anything. And you as the Self are not in charge either, because to the Self, there is only the Self and there are no problems and nothing to be in charge of. The problems only arise for the self apparently under the spell of ignorance or Maya, when it identifies with the body/mind, the dream, and thus suffers.

The most important part of inquiry is the patience and determination to keep the scripture in mind 24/7, thought by thought, day by day, no matter how long it takes. What price freedom? All three stages of self-inquiry must be completed, and at all stages, karma yoga and guna yoga must be applied at all times. It is very hard to completely dismiss the identification with the body/mind, and most inquirers have great difficulty with it.

Jacob: Other times I find myself a certain conformism when I see that the truth is not established in my understanding. Is this how I should understand it or do I continue with the apparent struggle?

Sundari: See above. Just keep submitting the stubborn mind to the teachings, never give up. This is normal Jacob, it is part of the human condition to conform.  Even though the truth of reality is nondual, to train the mind to think differently is very hard because it is so counter-intuitive; the hypnosis of duality makes it very difficult. Maya is a master of illusion.

Jacob: It is truly incredible to know that I am not what I seem and yet this continues to cloud my knowledge. It seems as I write as if I were complaining to myself, but my fervent desire to know myself as the Being burns me.

Sundari: Maya makes the impossible possible. No matter what, you are never not the Self because Maya does not really cover you.  Maya is another object known to you. And yes, you are complaining to your Self because there is no other option!  But don’t worry, the Self does not care one way or the other because it never conditions to anything. You do know your true nature, you cannot forget that once you have realized the Self.  

But actualizing Self-knowledge is the hard part, and it takes as long as it takes. It is amazing that the power of Maya to delude the mind is so strong. Just remind yourself that no matter what the mind is experiencing, you are not the experiencer but the knower of the experiencer.  Even the experience of frustration is known to you, the Self.  Keep up the inquiry, with humility and determination. Very importantly, if you do not have one, start a devotional practice. Make your life into a prayer of gratitude and consecration to Isvara. Whether you feel negative thoughts arise in the mind or in a gratitude to Isvara for taking care of all your need, chant identity mantras. This is a good way to keep the mind purified.

Jacob: Before you can answer me, I want to thank you and James for your work and dedication, you are my connection to the truth and I hope to stay connected, even if it’s in your English language, which I don’t know, if I always understand correctly, but this is Isvara’s wish and that’s how it has to be. Much love to both of you

Sundari: Thank you Jacob.  We are not ‘connected’ to the truth, but I understand how you mean that. The truth of Vedanta is not ours, it is the logic of existence, and timeless. It is our true nature, as it is yours, so we cannot be ‘connected to it’. We are it. We are mouthpieces for the teachings, and as such, we are very privileged to ‘work for Isvara’.

Feel free to write any time

Much love

Sundari

I do not have anything special to share and at the same time: I do!  

I am FREE. Who is free?! Did I say free like FREE?! Yes!  I am free of the one who is writing. The writing is being written. The jiva is being “lived”. How cool is that? 

I feel quiet, relaxed, content. Often blissful. Mostly just “content”. Wow! Really cool.  

The “rushing” stopped. The searching, the need to grasp more of the teachings, to study MORE, the wanting, the idea of moksa (and all other the ideas), the big spiritual experiences seemed to have stopped. Even the idea that something needs to be said, shared or explained is not there anymore. 

I read Vedanta every day with great joy. I do not “need” to read the scripture.  It’s beautiful and very enjoyable to focus on the truth though. I enjoy the silence, walking in the forest next to our house,  a cup of tea and my own presence. I enjoy seeing life unfold, without feeling the “pressure” that comes from thinking that I am responsible for the happening. What a relief! 

Life is mostly quiet and harmonious.  The kids are good. They are happy, enjoying their lives. I do not have much to do anymore. Just accompanying the kids as they continue to grow up.  Incredible how perfectly everything accommodated for my little jiva. Life has been so generous to my “me”! Finding Vedanta and you was incredible. I ask myself how the life of this person without these teachings would be. It would be miserable! 

I am. That’s it. As simple as that.  All of a sudden it is just clear. Nothing “happened” and this impacted everything else. What changed?! The fear, the anxiety, the expectations are not there anymore. I am unaffected by the “apparent happening of life”. 

The standpoint changed. From being a person to being reality/existance, containing the jiva and everything else appearing “in me”.  

The person, the doing, the happening are still “occurring”.  Because  that’s the way things are for the person. Once the ball starts rolling, it rolls all the way down the road, until it eventually stops for good.  The life of a jiva could be compared to a snowball being affected by gravity. It rolls and rolls until it hits the bottom of the mountain. Then it stops and that’s the end. That’s it’s end.

The thoughts appear in the mind.  I see them. I am either the mind not it’s thoughts. How cool is that?! That’s so freaking enjoyable. To see how the mind goes to all those different places and I don’t. I don’t go anywhere. I contain all those processes but I am not them. I don’t get contaminated or mixed with any of them. 

I am not the happening either.

 “Playing to be jiva”  gets to be funky at times. Sometimes really funny. 

Sometimes the mind identifies with something. That’s ok.  

Everything remains the same in “my life” and yet I am free of my mind, thoughts, feelings, time, events… 

The apparent limitations and the suffering, the struggle and the wanting, the binding desires… All that seemed to have stopped. Ramji, this is so cool.

I am shining, love, forever. 

I love you. Thank you for all these years of love, light, patience and these wonderful teachings.

Judy

Dear Judy,

Finally!  You’ve been seeking for a long time and now the seeker is gone.  Your email brings tears to my eyes!  God is great!  You are great!  Vedanta is great!  I love you.

Ramji

Thank you, thank you for You, for the Guru who came when the conditions were right. 

After 5 or so years of listening to the teachings, attending some seminars, reading satsangs and books, talking about Vedanta, and marinating in the knowledge and understanding of who I really AM,  the sattvic thought, “NOW you are ready to hear the teachings”  streamed across the mind like a banner announcing an important moment.

Much of these years have been a battle, as the light of Vedanta shines on the conditioning of four plus decades of Christian-influenced American/Western culture, materialism, work-ism, individualism, and perfectionism. The jiva’s been roiled with feelings of angst, anger, frustration, tension, and confusion as the mind tries to make sense of what the jiva thought was real versus Vedanta and what truly IS real. 

This jiva has always wanted to know freedom, be freedom, have freedom and searched many paths to find it – Christianity, some exposure to Eastern practices and reading Nisargadatta and Krishnamurti, trying the mystic/feminine mystery school approach, Western yoga – and kept searching …then Vedanta showed up 

And when it showed up the battle really began as there was so much confusion and frustration at the beginning of exposing the mind to Vedanta with all the both/and statements, the re-orienting of being Self instead of the object jiva as self.  But despite this, there was a relentless fight for freedom!! Often I found I was watching the jiva make choices that it didn’t want, despite itself  – like listening to a video, meditating on the teaching, reading a text or book or satsang – because the desire for freedom was so great that the jiva would not stand in the way!

Now that there has been a dismantling of conditioned thought patterns with the brilliant, ordinary logic of Vedanta, there is peace. I AM what I have been searching for- I was already there!!  It’s so cleverly funny when the jiva truly sees what REALLY is!  I remember when I first realized who I really AM at a weekend retreat with you in Georgia- I went into the bathroom and looked in the mirror and laughed and cried at that image, at how I had thought I was the reflection in the mirror all these years  

And so now, the listening continues with joy, delight, light- heartedness, truly free! 

With love and gratitude, 

Mary

Dear Mary,

Appreciation is always appreciated and good for you!.  It is certainly appropriate to see inquiry as a war as that pesky ignorance is hard-wired.   It’s a tribute to your devotion that you stuck with it and are now reaping the benefit.   As the saying goes, “Perseverance furthers.”  Yes, the listening continues, not just to the teaching but to life itself.  Thanks so much for the donation.

Much love,

Ramji

Hope all is well with you and Sundari, I know you are getting ready for your trip so when u get a chance reflect on my formulation below this please..

Contemplating all that I have heard  from you and on the discussion that morning over breakfast in TL:

I AM before the mind  ( all minds are the same one  , includes intellect , memory , etc) , I am what animates these such that to say anything more than I am ( i.e. I think , I see, I reflect ,I know,  etc)  there is identification with what is illuminated .

As such  then what I am is the the fabric by which the gunas/Isvara/maya can exist and present the apparent reality including a  person named Peter who lately is stuck on trying to understand the riddle of sleep ( but as I learned whatever is to be known will not affect the light source by which the known is known and unknown ;unknown.  I.e. pre intellect pre mind )

Maya/Isvara are but powers “in me” ,  to get mesmerized by these is missing the reality that I am which provides a field for this power to manifest…

This understanding does have an immense “feeling” if you can call it that one both humbling and liberating

Once identification with the mind recurs , there seems to be a hesitation ( not a fear but more humility, tears of gratitude, etc. ) to accept what is powering this apparent person with all of his shortcomings.

Love and respect and tones of missing the company of you  ,  trust your input and guidance as always

Peter

Hi Peter,

Sorry for the delay replying but…same old story…busy as hell.  I loved this email.  Yes, to all of it, particularly the statement, “This understanding does have an immense “feeling” if you can call it that one both humbling and liberating.”  I hope our paths meet again one fine day.  

Much love,

James 

One sentence of last seminar continues to trigger:

The Self is defined as Sat Chid Ananda: Sat and Chid are ever obvious. And Ananda, Bliss is that “aspect” of the Self that makes the Jiva search for happiness. 

From the perspective of the Self, Sat and Chid are equal to Bliss, whole, infinite and complete as it is. The Jiva, though ignorant, has no difficulties to recognise it exists and is conscious, but doesn’t realise that its never-ending search for fulfilment is due to the already ever present Ananda. Therefore, ignorant of its wholeness, it starts looking for bliss in the world and believes it will complete it. 

Can we state that although Sat Chid and Ananda are nirguna, in maya Sat Chid Ananda are undergoing the influence of sattva, rajas and tamas, and especially Ananda stimulates the rather rajasic (burning) desire for moksha?

Ram:  You can say that the satchitananda atma is apparently under the influence of the gunas, owing to its seeming association with the Subtle Body, which is the three gunas.   Apparently means it isn’t under any influences.  All influences are “under” it.     

You can also say that the same ananda motivates the search of samsaris for experience-generated reflected bliss and it also motivates varying degrees of desire for liberation in spiritually-inclined individuals.   

Well, while writing this, I realise that this applies to me (Mary), but maybe not to everyone.  

Ram: Well, actually it doesn’t apply to Mary, unless the word Mary refers to the satchitananda atma.  There is only one me.   Your statement implies that the seeking Mary is conscious but “she” isn’t.  She’s an It, an insentient idea incapable of seeking.  Isvara is doing the seeking.  The jiva never seeks because it is the satchitananda atma before, during and after the idea of seeking appears as an object within the scope of its panoramic awareness. 

One’s desire for moksha may be sattvic or tamasic too… Obviously if the above makes sense, it clarifies all my past issues and conditionings, my rajasic behaviour and reaction every time joy was involved in life, it explains my insomnia since childhood, and it shows the path out of this wrong conditioning. I must have known and experienced since forever that I’m pure bliss but because of maya and rajoguna, I couldn’t handle “additional” material and universal joy. I already was the fire of joy but vasanas and samskaras made me continue to stimulate the burning desire for knowledge and life.

Ram:  Yes, you always were pure bliss but maya made you think the bliss was in objects, in this case an event called moksa.  There is no moksa because you were never bound. 

And now, thanks to Isvara, Mary is “burned-out”, left with some nasty work of deprogramming wrong conditioning and habits, but totally convinced there is nothing to search for, and certainly no reason to set life on fire just because I’m bliss!

Ram:  Yes, there is nothing to seek.  But there is also no reason why you have to get rid of the bad habits unless you think they are real.  Even then you can’t get rid of them because you can’t get rid of something that is real or unreal.  If you stand as non-seeking awareness…the only me…they will fall off effortlessly.  You needn’t carry the Mary idea forward.  But if you do, then you can give the imaginary rajasic Mary entity the nasty job of cleaning up her imaginary mess.   The mess is Isvara.  Leave it to Isvara.  You’re fine.  Smell the roses, watch the grass grow. 

I pray to Isvara to help me to dissolve the attachment to this useless intensity. 

Ram:  As long as you think you are Mary, then you need Isvara to make messes and clean them up.  Let Isvara be Isvara.  You’re the satchitananda atma.  You are not a mess.  You’re the knower of messes.  When you accept that, the intensity will abate and you will cool down.  Think of it as moving from the burning sunlight to the cool moonlight.  Light is light, hot or cool.  

To repeat.  There was only a Mary because you thought there was a Mary.  The gunas have no influence on you.  It’s time to let the Mary thought go.  From now on the word Mary points to you, the ever-present atma, as it always did.

Love and gratefulness for the non-ordinary teachings about this ordinary existence… 🙂

Om and Prem,

Your own Self

Dear Ram-ji,

Waw, this was a hard nut to crack!  I feel like in a “bubble-shoot” game: You keep shooting on bubbles your whole life, and every time you hit a few vasana-bubbles, some new ones appear. But once you hit the Big Bubble, the one that has a name and a form and that appears to live in a world, then all the bubbles drop off together: the karma-bubble, the dharma-bubble, the punya/papa bubble, the moksha bubble, the body-bubble, the free-will bubble, the waking state-bubble, the sleeping-state bubble, the story-bubble… All gone! End of the game!

You’re so right to point this out, it’s time to stop thinking there is a Mary. Shoot off this one Big Bubble, so that the one and only Sat Chid Ananda remains as shining.

Thank you for the right shoot! You made an ace! 😉

Ram:  It seems the empty bubble was full all along.  Love you, Mary!!!

Something strange seems to be happening to me. No avenues that I would normally run to seem viable anymore. Everything seems pointless but not in a bad way. I have really lost all sense of caring what the spiritual community I have served for so long thinks or expects of me. It’s just nothing but positioning and desire motivated activity with the exception of the rare sincere seeker God places in front of me asking for help. Anyone else in my position who has acquired the level of reputation I have would be reveling in it. Creating a following and just having a grand old time. I’m bored shitless with it all. My wife’s affair would have normally sent me right out the door looking for a new conquest. I need a new romantic partner like I need a hole in the head. At the same time I see our little dance too. An endless list of goals we set for ourselves and for each other. I thought to myself recently, I could sell everything pay off all my debts give her half and be gone. I’d like to do that but then I thought it doesn’t matter.  Stay or go, it’s all the same. I feel like something is coming to a close but I don’t know what.

Ramji:  Jason is coming to a close. 

If it the marriage so be it. I have fulfilled my duty as a father. But its more than that. There is nothing left that I want. The prospect of letting everything go has forced me to face my fears too. Fear of losing standing in the community. Fear of emotional and financial insecurity. There never was anything permanent anyway. There never was much control.  Only over myself. Who even knows what it feels like to live life where you are not constantly prodded around like a Cow by your fears and desires.

Ramji:  I do.  It’s called freedom.  You’re free.  You’ve been doing your inquiry for years now and it’s paid off.   I’ve noticed the dispassion developing.  It’s ripe and the fruit is falling off the tree.  The snake sheds its skin.  You are what you were before the Jason entity was born.  Staying and going are non-different.  There are no gains or losses forthcoming. 

I feel ready. If God opens a door for me that feels right I might just walk through it. If that makes any sense. It’s feels like a type of catharsis. Deep sense of humility and love. I can’t be the person I was. He was just too full of shit. I think I am just ready to really be myself. 

Ramji:  You are an already accomplished fact.  You can stop pretending you are a human being named Jason.  It’s all just memories…my wife, my kids, my community, etc. Jeremy is a name of Existence shinings as Blissful Awareness aka YOU. There isn’t anyone else. 

Something occurred to me after writing my last question ” can I actually stand in that place (of non attachment) and refuse to move?” The “place” isn’t a place at all. It’s me! I AM the “place!” If I’m not experiencing it as myself then it it’s only because I am identified with the attachments. Why was that so hard to get ??? I’ve been asleep this whole fucking time !! OMG embarrassing!!! Hahaha!!!!Can’t help but laugh at myself. What a set up!! 

Ramji: Jason is a name of Existence shining as Blissful Awareness aka YOU. There isn’t anyone else. 

You don’t know me but I have been following your website and watching your videos and reading your books for about three years.  In the last few months you have been talking about the character issue and its impact on society, which is a very timely topic, considering that it is only in the last 20 years that social media became a powerful social institution.  Before people didn’t directly insult and attack each other in public very much, because they were not protected by the anonymity of social media.  There were real world consequences.  It is now possible to say hurtful things and lie without accountability, which is having a very negative impact on society. I know firsthand because I am getting more and more clients who are suffering anxiety because of untruthful attacks on social media.  It is equally troubling that they have no recourse to legal remedies because they are unable to identify their attackers. 

Until recently I viewed the Bhagavad Gita as an introductory text about moksa, in line with the idea that it starts with an emotional breakdown.  In the shop it is classified as an intermediate text.  Be that as it may, I have had an abiding interest in God more or less since childhood and somehow I always knew that there was not any difference between us or between one thing and another.  When I discovered your website I was completely attracted by Vedanta because it confirmed what I already knew in some way.  I am not ashamed to admit that Vedanta has become an obsession.  It caused some conflict at first with my husband, but that has passed now.  But as I became better informed, particularly after I watched the teachings on bhakti and the gunas, which really are advanced topics, I became aware that the Bhagavad Gita was the whole teaching from the beginning level to the most advanced.  Isn’t it really the whole teaching from A-Z?    

James:  Yes, it is the complete teaching, the essence of the Upanishads.  All five stages of the spiritual life are laid out systematically from karma yoga to upasana yoga to sravana, manana and nididyasana including the sixth “stage”, which is not a stage, non-dual bhakti. 

Mary:  Can you write a satsang that explores the character issue more and please and comment on my idea that while it seems as moksa is the goal, it really isn’t.  I’m a psychologist and I think the transformation of an individual for the benefit of society is the actual goal of life.  Thank you so much for everything that you and Sundari do.  Shiningworld is an amazing gift to the world. 

James:  Appreciation is much appreciated, Mary.  If you mean that moksa is not actually the goal since the jiva is already free, the answer is yes.  The back story of the teaching, which many people only vaguely appreciate, is a period of social conflict, which is caused by the bad character of one very powerful man, Duryodhana, who is aware of something in himself that is always working against him but he doesn’t know what it is.  He calls it “some powerful god seated in my heart.”  It is just the rajasic/tamasic samskara that plagues everyone.  It doesn’t make everyone violent and murderous, but it makes people do all sorts of things that contradict their good opinion of themselves and motivates them to disturb the social order with gratuitous demands.

Before I continue, let’s define character as the consistent application of the principle that doing one’s duty to the world supersedes the need of an individual to satisfy his or her wants.  This doesn’t mean that one’s desires shouldn’t be worked out but they shouldn’t be more important than the needs of others.  The Gita says they shouldn’t cause one to break dharma, meaning that the universal expectation of non-injury that is the basis of all social interactions, trumps the individual’s need to express his or her self, should that expression cause harm to others.  It’s a tricky topic because where does the individual end and society begin?  In general the rule is that the needs of the total trump the needs of the individual because individuals are totally dependent on others to fulfill their needs.  But this is a dangerous principle if people without character rule because it leads to totalitarianism.  The opposite principle—that the needs of individuals is more important than the needs of the total—is equally dangerous because if society is dominated by hedonistic self-centered individuals who are only interested in expressing their “true selves,” however the true self is defined, it will produce undemocratic totalitarian rulers too.  So, for society to function harmoniously you need a majority of individuals who appreciate both arguments and can educate people by precept and example as to the nature of the these two conflicting forces.  And in this regard, example trumps precept.  If it doesn’t society will disintegrate because people will become cynical and distrust their rulers.  So you need reasonable rulers, role models, who genuinely care about the needs of everyone, not just the needs of a particular social cohort.     

Durydhodana is an example of a person who thinks his needs are more important than the needs of everyone else.  He is an extrovert, eaten up by his envy of Arjuna and his brothers, who are noble principled people, much loved by everyone.  He wants to destroy them because their presence causes him to be aware of his own unhappiness.  He is power hungry because he is compensating for that weak troublesome unloved person within.  It needs to be emphasized that he is the son of a “blind king,” meaning Self ignorance.  We are all born ignorant of who we are.  To put it simply, although he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, he had a rotten unloving childhood because he was raised by greedy selfish materialistic parents.  He is very much the cowardly troll, as for many years he surreptitiously tries to assassinate the Pandavas while he presents a false smiling face to the world.

Keep in mind that all metaphors are caricatures, exaggerations.  One shouldn’t think that because they are not great demons like Durydhona, that they are free from selfish negative energy.  Negativity large and small, boredom and cynicism, for instance, which are commonplace nowadays, are not socially beneficial obviously. People don’t trust each other or the institutions in society, much less themselves.  Fear is the disease of the times, encrypted everything.  Just wait, three and four factor identification are in the offing. 

The Gita, however, won’t allow Duryodhana to conceal his inner pain because you can’t hide your pain.  People feel it, no matter how smarmy your smile.  After he has fulfilled the conditions of his exile, Arjuna’s sense of injustice still burns brightly and eventually causes him to confront Duryodhana.  With the help of an avatar, someone not born under the force of his own karma but born instead of the collective karma i.e. the need of society to purge itself of adharmic forces, he is destroyed, meaning that Self knowledge destroys that small, brittle, grievance-oriented person.  On a social scale this happens when enough people are committed to dharma.  But the destruction of evil is never enough.  Dharma is only as good as the actions that support it.   

To amplify your point, moksa is not the attainment of a goal.  That goal is naish–karma siddhi, “already accomplished,” meaning freedom is the nature of the self. If this were understood there would be no need for Vedanta, no Bhagavad Gita.  So Vedanta is forced to cheat a bit, adharma in the service of dharma if you will.  It dangles moksa like a carrot on a string in front of suffering people because it knows that everyone wants to be happy and free of limitation.  It’s not a false goal actually, because freedom is always possible because everything is existence shining as bliss’/consciousness, which is our nature and free of everything we know and experience as individuals.  But this freedom is implicit knowledge, not explicit knowledge, which the Gita makes explicit and exhorts us to pursue.  It needs to be uncovered, which is a rediscovery, not the discovery of something new, which a person can’t do on his or her own.  The person requires the help of an impersonal means of knowledge and a dharmic teacher.  This is why Arjuna surrenders to Krishna.

So how is this already accomplished fact accomplished?  It is accomplished by the destruction of the adharmic parts of one’s self.  You should know that in the story Duryodhana is not resurrected.  He does not rise from the dead.  He is smashed to bits, pulverized by Bhima’s club, never to see the light of day again.  Bhima represents tamas in service of dharma.  It symbolizes the dogged determination to root out every last vestige of adharma in one’s personality.

And how is this destruction accomplished?  By sublimation, developing a dharmic personality. The last six chapters of the Gita says there are two basic personality profiles: the rajasic/tamasic and the sattvic.  It says that the energy to transform the adharmic part into the dharmic part comes from the adharmic part itself.  In other words I need to sacrifice the unhealthy parts if I want to be healthy.  This makes sense, but it is not easy because most of us have normalized our adharmic parts and become comfortable with discomfort.  We don’t realize that we never laugh hilariously from the gut, that our half-baked smiles hide unresolved issues.  So many spiritual people love the idea of freedom from selfishness but harbor more than their fair share of it.  It takes character to put your need for truth above your need to feel good.   

This is why victimhood is entrenched in modern culture.  As long as a person is content with the idea that he or she knows the self, however it is defined, and knows the difference between satya and mithya but still accommodates the ignoble parts (the hurt cynical whiney inner Trumpster as it were) the moksa is only notional, not actual.  A free person is free of the notion that he or she has been wronged and that society is unfair because that sense of injury has motivated him or her to grow into the light, not project wrong doing on others.   Everything is always perfect inwardly and outwardly for a free person because both the inner world and the transactional reality belong to Isvara.  Dharma and adharma side by side make sense to them because they are established in the principle that transcends both.  The Gita delivers the knowledge of why it all makes sense to them. 

It is understandable that people love to pat themselves on the back and stop at moksa to smell the roses.  “I’m the blissful self, I’m not the person I once was.  I know the difference between the satya and the mithya person,” the mithya person says without a trace of irony.  “I’m beyond that.  It is only an object to me.  I help people.  I root for the underdog. I speak truth to power, etc.”  They may not signal their virtue to others but they signal it to themselves because they are fundamentally insecure.  They become complacent and small self-satisfied, all the time thinking they are the big free self.  I call it stuck in sattva.  Sattva is presented as a goal at the beginning of the Gita, but it may eventually become an obstacle, particularly if one is not surrendered to the teacher, who won’t let it slide. The problem with tamas is that it resembles sattva.  Cynical people think they are quite smart, when they are far from it.  They are not well-meaning people, although they believe they are.  “Nobody is going to pull the wool over my eyes.”  I know what’s really going on.”  The “woke” Twitter crowd and the “deplorable” Trump crowd are just different sides of the same ignorant tamasic coin. 

Having said this much, now to your point.  What are we doing here in these strange meat tubes?  The idea of freedom is only attractive because we think we are bound.  But when you see that you aren’t bound, what are you going to do then?  It would be nice if I could just drop dead once I realized who I was and avoid dealing with the zero-sum nature of life, but when I die isn’t up to me, just as when I’m born isn’t up to me and the world continues as always.  When you see that you are neither free or bound you have nothing to gain for yourself and nothing to protect except the dharma, the truth.  So at that point, you realize that the only option is to serve the world.  But serving others is difficult if you haven’t cleaned up the past, which means justifying your biases with reference to your karma. No matter how fortunate your circumstances, you can always pawn your dissatisfaction off on the past.  There is no way anyone can verify it, so it more or less works, assuming you are a sympathetic person.   

Yes, you can help in small ways but your energy will not inspire and motivate people to make the difficult choices that is the hallmark of a noble character.  Krishna represents the noble person.  He says, “I have nothing to gain but I am tirelessly active because I am a role model, as are you Arjuna.”  He could have told Arjuna that he and his army would join the Pandavas.  They would have easily made mincemeat out of Duroydhona.  But he doesn’t. The Gita gives his army to Duryodhana according to Durodhana’s vasana and Krishna to Arjuna, according to his innermost tendency, which is to know the truth.  And it has Krishna agree to chauffer Arjuna.  He could easily have caught one of the many arrows meant for Arjuna.  In fact, the best way to kill a warrior is to kill his horse or his charioteer.  But he was unconcerned.  He had nothing to gain by living or dying.  He was untouched by Maya and situated in real virtue, the “no-man’s land” between the armies.  He was an embodiment of dharma, a noble soul.

We are all role models.  Someone is always watching us, looking for inspiration from childhood onward. The question is, “What are we modeling?” The medium is the message.  Are you a dissatisfied person cuddled up with life’s losers tucked comfortably behind a clever alias in the dark bowels of the web imagining that you are telling truth to power, when you are actually twisting the truth and spewing hate?  Are you merely a woke, self-righteous censorious extroverted shamer trying to signal virtuousness to the world to allay your own insecurities?  Are you big enough to take the little pin pricks and the grand reversals of fortune that life brings in stride and present a cheerful countenance to the world and channel God’s eternal goodness to everyone who presents themselves to you in whatever way their karma dictates?  So the real question is not who or what am I, but what am I actually doing with the God-given power at my disposal.

We shouldn’t look down on people who don’t know what love is or what character is, because Isvara seems content to generate scores of tamasic/rajasic souls for every sattvic soul.  Life is full of ankle biting pigmies. So what?  So spirituality demands radical integrity.  I need to be brutally honest with myself and develop a healthy ironic sense of self-contempt.  Am I really doing my best or am I just resting on my laurels?  Never give up; you can always become a better version of yourself.  When Narada says that the freedom that is non-dual love grows and grows, he is pointing to the human heart’s inexhaustible wellspring of goodness  waiting to be tapped by dedicated inquiry. 

So yes, Mary, there’s more to life than moksa.  The Bhagavad Gita is more than a beginning, intermediate or advanced text.  It is simply the roar of God’s love, the context in which the faint prattling’s of humanity are reduced to nothing.       

Frank: Thank you so much for this wonderful gift. A perfect reflection deep and cutting right through, direct yet with such care. This past week I so often wanted to reply yet the I that wanted to, kept getting in the way.

Some time ago I was in a cult, at the time I didn’t think so. It promised all the usual things and I left after years of trying. Yet still today have recurring dreams that I’m back in and cannot leave, don’t want to leave, because deep down it was all “I” had. In a sense never leaving. 

This week for the first time the dream changed – I could see the I that clung to it. A doubt that even this secret faith, even though I had left, might still pay off. Other than *realising* that nothing ever happened (with all the efforts the “I” did).

It is so liberating the last days but in an exhausted way. While contemplating your words there is a letting go where all the tension releases. How tired the mind and emotions have become with continual effort trying to prop up an unreal entity. It’s like a bridge collapsing that never needed to be built in the first place. 

This feels it will continue for a while but has an end I can now see for the first time. 

Thank you again and much love to you both. 

Sundari: You capture the existential exhaustion of being a doer and the ever-hopeful ego perfectly with your bridge analogy. The jiva spends its life defending what it thinks it owns and imminent loss, endlessly building bridges in the attempt to connect to and shore up protection from the big bad unpredictable world. Only to find that in the shifting sands of Maya no foundation is strong enough to prop up an illusion.

All its efforts are in vain, sadly. Nothing lasts and there are no ultimate solutions in mithya. Yet there is something heroic in the jiva’s misguided efforts all the same, and rather poignant if only it did not cause so much suffering! I have always thought that Isvara rather went to town on making the hypnosis of duality quite so convincing. Could there not be a little more bias towards sattva in the creation, and not quite so much rajas and tamas….? What to do. It’s hard for jivas not to get cynical. Trapped in duality the best options for the world-weary soul seem to be cheery pessimism or weary idealism!

I recently experienced a shift when I thought shifts were a done deal for me. A teacher of Vedanta and friend of ours, Stan Kublicki, put it so well:

Quote: “It seems like you can fit all of Vedanta on the sharp point of a pin where discrimination runs out. But how do you get to that last bit of knowledge? It`s all well and good going through all the stages of negation, leaving intellectual knowledge far behind but just what is happening in the final shift of knowledge? It`s like the most fascinating of miracles. The point where experience and knowledge are one. ” The shiftless shift”…have you got a teaching for that?!” End quote.

To which I reply: Yes indeed, moksa distilled is as subtle as it gets, and to ‘get there’ is unchartered and unteachable territory. There is no ‘getting there” because you are there and there is no there. Thus, the end of all duality, freedom from limitation, ‘happens’ purely by the grace of Isvara once the teaching has done its job and there is no more to be had from it. There is no one left to teach.

The point is that there is nothing ‘in’ the final shift of knowledge, not even knowledge. Ignorance and knowledge are objects known to you and are both seen as such. There is no substantive change in experience when Self-knowledge is firm because you don’t stop being a jiva.  But freedom means you are not identified with the jiva anymore, which is huge. Whatever the jiva feels or thinks is ok with you because you would not be unlimited and free if the jiva had to stop feeling and thinking according to its nature. But its nature is no longer binding and is known to be a mirage that no longer needs propping up. It is an entity whose dissolution is not in dispute and that’s freedom.

I can empathize with the remnants of feelings from you being involved in a cult. Though I had the good grace to never be drawn to one, I understand the human need behind it. People become involved in cults for many reasons and there are mostly downsides to them, but one of the positive reasons is the impulse to belong, to be connected. It is a fundamental and very human need, which can be healthy and conducive to growth and development when it is not thwarted by issues of neediness, control, and manipulation.  Which unfortunately is often the case.

We know many inquirers who were once part of a cult, some for decades. We often see the same remnant, the feeling of longing for that heightened state of coherence, the experience of ‘ecstatic aliveness magnified and propelled beyond the ordinary into an elevated state of unity’. It’s what Vedanta calls the golden cage of sattva and a trap like any other. Perhaps that is why you had the recurring dream. The dream changing could also bring a feeling of loss for the jiva, heralding an ending, even though Self-knowledge is clearly at work observing the process. Enlightenment is sold and sought by the spiritual world as the ultimate state of rarefied being, but of course, it is not. It is not a state, and it is ordinary. Yet negating the jiva can be brutal for the ego. It takes as long as it takes.

Vedanta, being the truth that reality is non-dual, is unequivocally a renunciation of unity as a ‘collective’ as you put it previously. Nondual means just that. It can seem like a lonely path sometimes because there is no one but you. Yet, far from being lonely, the recognition of your oneness with all life, with the absolute singularity of the Eternal Jiva being the nondual Self and no other, opens the flood gates to love. One is no longer limited to receiving or giving love when or if we are fortunate to encounter it or to bestow it. 

We are it and therefore never need love or part with it. Life is an embarrassment of riches. Alone means all one, and we experience that with or without the presence of so-called ‘others’. Therein alone lies our true redemption, even as the dear conceptual jiva longing to belong. It’s all good. Once you know all is you, all your thoughts and feelings will automatically and spontaneously come from the wellspring of your infinite nature, even when they seem to be very jiva-ish and mundane!  It’s ok to be a jiva, even talk like a jiva when you know you are the Self. Life can truly be enjoyed and savoured then. Moksa is the only true cure for cynicism!

I am happy for you that you know that you are that which makes seeing possible, you are that looking out of your eyes and that which you are looking at. May the seer that never began or ceases, the all-seeing eye or “I” that sees only itself because there are no objects for you to see, never fail to fill your jiva heart with the wonder that is you. 

With much love

Sundari

I’m taking in what you have wrote to me with vigilance toward the usurping jiva ego/intellect. The reality is I AM ordinary Consciousness/Existence shining as Awareness and I Am not affected by what the jiva says, does, thinks, feels, gains or loses, etc., all of which appear in Me, but are not real. I see how I/jiva was mistakenly interchanging Self-realization with Self-actualization. 

It was the jiva thinking it had to do something/had to achieve something/get approval. I meant by “in hand” that jiva may have had self-knowledge, and “failed to wield it properly” meant that the jiva, in spite of said knowledge, didn’t actually discriminate properly that I AM Self and not the jiva. I didn’t mean to imply that the jiva was wielding the knowledge as a Vedanta teacher or that the problem was anything other than that as an inquirer I misunderstood.   It was a poor use of language. I see the enlightened ego identity and how that is not freedom. 

I see how I/jiva have been hearing and understanding intellectually, and then really missing the point of what was being said because for lack of discrimination and dispassion the jiva’s excitement at intellectual endeavors stood. All the I’s of my responses were the jiva. I don’t think I even tried to speak as the Self. The shock of the ES diagnosis actually made the ego worse it seems. It has been observed going through all sorts of antics trying to save itself.

I see now how the jiva has been cozy in its intellectual sheath, which is not freedom.  After all, I/jiva wonder if I actually do not have a self-assured jiva, but, rather, an insecure one who relies on the intellect and well-crafted language to hide behind. In either case, the jiva is an object known to Me, so it doesn’t matter what the jiva is like.  

Honestly, I wasn’t ever thinking I was beyond nididhyasana or  even close to the end of it, even with the ES I didn’t know I had, but I can see how it seemed that way.    I probably did move to nididhyasana too fast.  I see the mistakes I made, which you pointed out. I will continue with self-inquiry, going back to the beginning. 

Sundari: Well done, I am happy for you, great reply. You are right, the jiva is the jiva, and whatever its hang-ups or shortcomings, so what?  It’s not real and not you, and you did not make it that the way it is. It belongs to Isvara and has nothing to do with you. The only problem with that is when the ego co-opts the knowledge, as you are now well aware. This is quite normal and as I said before, most inquirers go through this stage, it’s pretty unavoidable, Maya being as persuasive and tenacious as it is. Once the ego is ‘caught in the act’ so to speak, it is not going to give up without a fight.

But there is ZERO tolerance for self-aggrandizement if moksa is to obtain, how could there be as reality is nondual? As soon as the ego takes the credit the doer is back and so is limitation and bondage. Once the mind is purified of duality, the ego still functions, but it is not a problem anymore. It has been neutered. Humility is then the minds’ natural response to everything in its environment (Isvara) because it no longer sees ‘specialness’ or ‘otherness’. This takes so much pressure off the jiva because there is no need to perfect it or make it conform to some silly ‘spiritual’ ideal.  It is just known and loved for what it is: a reflection of the Self in a mirror, which is also the Self, but you are not it.

Some advanced inquirers try the Advaita shuffle by using the teachings to avoid cleaning up the jiva under the pretext that ”it’s not me, so who needs nididhysana?’ Not me! While this is true as the Self, it is not true for the jiva unless perfect satisfaction has obtained. If Self-knowledge does not translate into the life of the jiva, freedom is not that free. There are no degrees to freedom; you either are or you are not. If rajasic or tamasic thinking still takes up the real estate of the mind for longer than it takes to negate it with Self-knowledge, perfect satisfaction does not obtain. Any remaining impurities (samskaras) will block access to Self-knowledge when triggered, and you can be sure they will be, so suffering continues. As most actions are motivated by dissatisfaction, if a Self-realized person is dissatisfied it is because they continue to act according to their jiva program, ignorance/duality is still present, and discrimination temporarily lost. 

There is no shortcut to moksa, it is about ruthless objectivity, from the jiva perspective.  Moksa is for the jiva, after all. As the Self, you have always been free and perfect. As I said previously, Self-realization is not moksa unless you were qualified when you realized who you are. Your response to my provocative last email to you shows excellent dispassion and discrimination, a very auspicious sign that the qualifications are present as is the driving desire for freedom. If the fruit of Self-knowledge, perfect satisfaction is firm, the jiva, the world, and the doer’s role in it are noticeable mainly by their absence.  

But if even though your primary svadharma is self-inquiry, and you know you are the Self, yet are not experiencing the radiant guilt-free happiness that Self-knowledge implies, then you are not following your nature properly and self-inquiry is incomplete. You are close, but still no cigar.  Many advanced inquirers are stuck here. You may be level-headed, honest, and objective about your jiva self (as you are) and not hiding anything from yourself, but there can still be something is hidden fromyou.

The ‘hidden’ factor is what taking a stand in the Self as the Self actually means. It is common for inquirers to fail to see that though they know they are the Self, they are still ‘outside’ Self-knowledge. The Self is still objectified because they have not made the connection that though the jiva is just an idea, an object known to the Self, the eternal Jiva is the Self, Jivatman. This is a tricky one, and the most subtle part of the teachings because all along you are taught to negate the jiva.  But, which jiva is negated? The conceptual jiva.

If you look at a photograph you don’t see the camera in it, yet the picture doesn’t exist without the camera.  There simply cannot be a Jiva without the presence of the Self.  This presence is completely ignored in most people’s narrative, yet it is the Self with a big ‘S’, that makes the narrative possible. Once moksa obtains, the Jiva that the narrative focuses on is not an actual person; that person is known to be an abstraction, a story. A mirage.  It seems to exist but is as good as non-existent. The conceptual identity you previously took to be real is completely subsumed and has ‘become’ what it always was, the Self, Jivatman. They are one and the same; this is nondual vision. Nididhyasana is making sure that your life as a ‘small’ jiva is synchronized with your identity as the limitless ever-present Existence/Awareness, the eternal Jivatman.

So, the penultimate stage of enlightenment is taking a stand in Awareness AS Awareness, no fine print.  How else is the Jiva going to reclaim its true limitless nature?  The Jiva—the eternal individual—is non-separate from the Self; that is the non-dual teaching.   Obviously, in the story, jiva can’t claim anything because it is just a conceptual person.  But the sentient person, the eternal Jiva who is telling the story, can own up its true identity and gain the fruit – perfect satisfaction – if he/she does their svadharma i.e., applies Self-knowledge.  What does this look like?  You got it right.

It looks like dismissing the limited notion of yourself with the correct notion, which is, “I am not jiva; I am limitless unborn non-dual unconcerned actionless ever-present Awareness.’  In other words, including your Self, dharma with a big “D”, along with jiva and her story, which is just a bunch of thoughts.  The Self thought should be the dominant thought. It is hard work and why we say that eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.

Even after moksa, the jiva will still have a particular way of relating to Isvara, which will be unique to its Isvara-given nature.  But because there is no longer a doer, no projection survives but is instantly dissolved in Self-knowledge. Whatever unfolds for the jiva is immediately seen in the light of Self-knowledge, the default position of the mind. As the jiva is a product of the gunas and is always subject to Isvara, the jiva is never going to be perfect nor expected to be. Nothing is in mithya. The jiva improves by default when Self-knowledge obtains, but that is not the aim of self-inquiry. The aim is to remove ignorance and so end suffering.

As Awareness, you are free of the jiva so there is no longer any necessity to unpick anything about its conditioning. All is known and understood for what it is, just the play of the gunas. Any guna imbalance automatically Self-corrects.  Life makes sense, and it is possible to experience perfect contentment and see beauty all the time, even when things are not pretty. In this way, we do not create any new karma but keep it like a little dog on a very short leash, right in front of us. Duality is never a problem for the Jivanmukta, it is understood and appreciated for what it is—enjoyed even. But as you are whole and complete, nothing is expected to deliver happiness.

A truly free person always stands out because they have genuine (not ego-based) self-confidence and peace of mind. But the scripture says that is very hard to tell an enlightened person from an unenlightened person because they do not necessarily behave differently, on the outside. The difference is all internal, not outwardly visible. A free person being unlimited is free to feel and do anything, or freedom would not be unlimited. There are no rules regarding the behavior of a free person; you are free to behave as the person Isvara made you be even though you are free of the person. 

Discrimination not behavior is the mark of a free person. A free person does nothing for happiness but does everything happily and never breaks dharma, neither personal nor universal, always responding appropriately in any situation. Free people automatically follow dharma because they are dharma with a big ‘D’.  Enlightened people also differ in the nature of their karma–their lives are simple, peaceful, unemotional, drama, and stress-free. Desire is still there but all desires are in line with dharma, i.e., known to be Isvara’s. No attachment to desire, no problem, no karma. Isvara takes care of everything and there are no bad results.

That is what freedom looks like.  Until then, keep up the nididhysana. Remember that even though nididhysana is not complete, you are still inwardly free because you are always the Self. The steps to get ‘there’ are the qualities of ‘being there’.  

Much love

Sundari