“It’s just the manic desire and/or fear based ownership of the doing/getting/keeping that makes rajas a big problem and burns us out”

N: This is a beautiful way to understand Rajas thank you.

S: Yes it is the only way to make sense of rajas, really.  We need all three gunas, but knowing how to use them for maximum peace of mind makes all the difference.

N: I was having a long chat last night with my brother who introduced me to James years ago and thanked him again. He  has been such a seeker, spending months in India, following Ramana, driving himself round the hill sometimes shouting into the air at Iswara that “his mind” cannot get it, spending weeks in caves. 

He had come to the conclusion now that his mind will never get it and we laughed at how we each have something in us which hates letting go of our oh so personal drives – we could each admit that was his and mine was not being good enough, at work, at school, in relationships, in spirituality. Once seen enough these Causal body tendencies are the same but become so apparently specific and owned forcing the Jiva to apparently go an apparently long way for apparently nothing.

S:  My talk this Sunday is on this topic – the resistance of the ego to submit, and how it can convince the mind that it is inept, if that is what will work to keep the status quo.

N: However we could agree last night that the knowledge in both our cases was the extracted (like the sweet grass) permanent when scripture referenced “thing” to retain: in Sams’ case that the knowledge his mind will never “get enlightened” has another side of the coin – this is wonderful news, to know finally that this is impossible, was always impossible is a pure gift from Iswara as only the Self logically remains. 

That logic appears at first to be “dry” without the expected stars and spangles of an experience and yet falls beautifully into place in the teachings; this is freedom. 

S: Yes! It’s so funny how the ego works, its many ploys to hang onto to doership and likes and dislikes.  If it’s going to give something up, it wants a big show, not something ‘ordinary’! Self-knowledge is so staggeringly simple and obvious, yet for the ego to transfer its  identity to it is far from it.

N: While his Jiva is still harking after it he can slowly progressively see it and be free. I see my Jiva reflexively jumping at work, pesky and addicted to making a point, impressing a girl but before it even starts (unless I am so blown out with stress and Tamas) I just look at it and go “why? Why bother?” 

Like the original Star Wars when Alec Guinness takes Luke Skywalker into an impossibly dangerous check point, Luke is freaking out and Obi Wan (Alex) just waves his hand casually with the Force running through his body and says to the Stormtroopers “there is nothing to see here, nothing to do, move on”. Luke then says when they are out of danger “How??!” and in full Jedi fashion Obi Wan says “the force (Iswara) has a strong influence on the weak (Tamas / Rajas) minded”.

While the teenager me thought this was incredibly cool I misunderstood that Obi Wan (as Arjuna) had chosen Krishna. Had he chosen a massive army instead, we know what the outcome would likely have been. What Hollywood is missing out on is it might not have gone that way – Obi Wan is not a magician. He was not doing it. It might have had all kinds of outcomes. Such things happen all the time but none of us are “Jedi”.

S: Great analogy!

N: So last night we were debating “so what are we doing?” – and we went down the qualification list…and debated it – we bring our bodies and minds into the Vedanta car workshop. We listen. We keep listening as best we can as often as we can. That is all we can do and the knowledge(able) “mechanics” do the work on the car but they are not people. Sam has had so many experiences of Shakti gurus touching his forehead and he’s been off for days high as a kite and inevitably came right back down every time. The fact he “came back down” is knowledge.

S: In my talk on Sunday I am going to talk about how the ego’s resistance interferes with karma yoga at every stage of inquiry, and that karma yoga is often misunderstood to be skill in action, when it is and it isn’t.  Skill or dedication in any action, even in showing up as an inquirer and getting the car (mind) overhauled by the scripture, is an effect or a benefit of karma yoga, but it is not it, exactly.  Karma yoga is an attitude of right dharmic action, yes, but  in surrender to Isvara is the tough part.

N: In sattvic moments we know we are clear enough to discriminate and be dispassionate enough to not allow what inevitably streams out of the Causal body which we can’t stop – triggered apparently by our Vasana loads (hopefully less now in swings, at least modulated) which appears to be so individual, to what is apparently outside of us. Knowing that we are ostensibly “offline” when Rajas (and I 100% agree, especially Tamas) are in the majority shareholding.

S: Well, that depends.  You as the Self are never and can never be ‘offline’. You have no problem with any of the gunas, or what they haul out of the Causal body,  as none of it affects you. However, if rajas and tamas are in the driver’s seat of the ego, and whatever is still lurking in the CB is coming for ‘you’, now there you have a problem – IF you are identified with the ego/mind.  If you are not, you see the gunas playing out, you see  the CB and its seemingly personal emanations as not me, thank you very much. ‘You’  as a non-doer take appropriate action in the karma yoga spirit, to ‘do’ what is possible and reasonable to manage the relative proportion of rajas and tamas to sattva, because peace of mind is paramount to you.  That is mind management, and once Self-knowledge is firm, it is automatic.

N: Then all “we have” in our minds is like blind faith from the knowledge, still we can just stop the senses and actions with a dim memory of “nah, we did that before..” even when the urge is so compelling and so justified and so “righteous”. 

S: No, not exactly.  There is still a doer talking here, if only a subtle one. As a doer we cannot stop the senses doing what they do, true.  But with Self-knowledge, we can certainly relate to the information they relay to us in a completely different way…i.e., not trust it and take it under the advisement of our nondual values. Inference is a valid means of knowledge, if the senses are in the service of actual knowledge, be it mithya knowledge or Self-knowledge. But if the senses are in the service of ignorance, definitely do not trust the information they are giving unless it concurs with Self-knowledge.  This is what discrimination and discernment boil down to.

If the ‘we’ in your mind is known to be Self, faith is no longer necessary.  You haven’t gained anything when Self-knowledge obtains, only lost ignorance.  Both ignorance and knowledge (i.e. faith) are objects known to you.  What is there to have faith in?  There is only you. Self-knowledge, like your name, does not require faith.  If however, there is still ‘faith in the knowledge’ lurking in the mind, then there is still some duality, or, those are the remnants of teaching that have to go.

N: What never works is trying to maintain a state of being high up – which we have both had countless times. In fact the higher it was the worse later – oh God I must be so bad or – in the case of cults “oh this shows how toxic the world is and I must do more for the cult so more people can be saved / brought in from the cold” etc. For us both now to pray for knowledge rather than enlightenment was quite an admission for us both!

S: That’s for sure!  If you do not know that you cannot get any higher than the Self, the higher the ego goes the further it has to fall.  And fall it will.

N: The faith comes from that we both know it to be true even if “we” don’t at times feel like it. 

S: Again, that depends. Who does the ‘we’ refer to? Self-knowledge is not something you can believe in – and if you do, you don’t get it.  It’s who you are, whether or not you (ego/mind) believe it or ‘feel’ it.  Self-knowledge is not a feeling because feelings come and go. It’s just who you are, which never comes and goes regardless of what ‘you’ are feeling.

N: We both have had so many lucky moments from the first meeting of James, through the scriptures, through the Satsangs, through the discussions, we have been round the Tiruvannamalai hill (in his case physically!, in my case mentally, emotionally) to know that the candle is burning down, the fan is off but still rotates, our knowledge gets clearer in a very measured, dosed, precise way which is also not up to us, regardless of what we do – other than bringing our minds and bodies and emotions to the knowledge, it does the work for us in the Causal body workshop. 

S: The mountain and the candle are just symbols of you, the Self.  You don’t need to go anywhere to know or experience that because you are always experiencing it.  That’s the problem with people believing they need to ‘have the experience’. Just trust the knowledge to be doing ‘the work’, as it clearly is.

N: While I am graced with realisations I also know now “I” do not have these or figure these out. Allowing me to think I do is fine but becomes less relevant – even this will disappear like a waste bag which has served its purpose of carrying.

S: As long as you know that the ‘I” you refer to is the Self,  all is well.  Isvara will remove any ignorance still in the way of the full assimilation of that fact, for as long as it takes. But, the good news is that no matter what, you are never not the Self!

N: Without a benchmark reference of the scripture this would be very difficult and, without the lineage of competent witnesses impossible I am now sure.

 As James often says “so God, or Christ comes down and says in a booming voice with incredible light  “you are consciousness!” – would it really make any difference?”

Jiva’s ignorance after this experience will kick right back in and worse, probably co-opt “me” as enlightened (or mad like a raving prophet in Monty Python – so thank Iswara that it doesn’t happen !!)

S: Yes, that is for sure.

N: But I heard this again last night and really knew it wouldn’t now – even though I knew the logic to be true years ago. The knowledge spans our minds like elastic from first hearing it to an apparent point in the future and provided we can take it on board provisionally and openly, at some point it snaps and all the time and drama in between which may have been years snaps and disappears as if nothing was in between at all, an illusion. This must be programmed – this has to be pre-wired into consciousness, the precision is way too exact to be random.

S: Yes, well put.  We need a good clear (sattvic) intellect to understand and contemplate the teachings. When the inquirer is totally dedicated, Isvara refines the intellect, which is in mithya and constrained by it, to the extent that you don’t need it anymore.  It’s not that you no longer use it because you need an intellect to function in mithya. But once Self-knowledge is firm, the work of the intellect is done regarding Self-knowledge. Assimilation is not actually done by the intellect; ‘your’ ignorance has been removed by Self-knowledge, itself. How can an object ever know the subject? Even karma yoga and discrimination become second and first nature, they are just there.  The ‘discriminator’ is gone. You are no longer an inquirer but a finder.

N: Like the surrender I felt going into an operating room, surrounded by advanced equipment, people with masks clearly saying we’re gonna do this, you will wake up – even if I really wasn’t sure – it was: “this” or, “get up off the table and try and “do” it on my own” with no clue (not really wise!). 

Very few people would do that in a hospital, but I think in the spiritual world he and I have. While he has stayed a course of Indian things in various forms I went all over the place – but in both cases  the commonality for us both is we tried all kinds of “self” operations and at some point we know, there is nothing else and, hopefully, with grace, met Vedanta.  

S: Yes, few people convinced they are people who are born and will die, would have that surrender. We do what we do until we don’t have to anymore; if the reason for that is because Vedanta, the nondual scripture, has assimilated, we are fortunate indeed.

N: Then I know there is nothing else when I meet it, in the same way I knew it was a dream before my Jiva is allowed by Ishwara to see it is a dream. Iswara pulled me awake, “I” did not wake me up. I can infer from this knowledge that death is likely similar: “ok you are now being pulled out – like a very big dream” and it won’t be in my control at all. I will observe it happening and what happens after until that is all there is. Whether “here” or “there”. 

S:  “I” do not sleep, ever. I, the Self,  am the knower of the body/mind asleep, dreaming or awake, as I am the knower of Isvara who is the bringer of sleep, dreaming, waking and dying. Sleep is exactly like death, except we wake up ‘in the body’.

Sundari quote: Can there be anything more tedious than the hustle for self-importance, wherever it plays out. So interesting what a game changer Self-knowledge is; nothing changes yet our whole orientation has changed from ego to Self.  Sure the ego does not always like it, but hey. It’s all good even when it’s not that great for the ego. We all go through this; knowing who you are is not a magic bullet for the ego. As long as we do not muddy the waters by allowing the doer influence or purchase, we get through it. 

N: Yes! – it’s infuriating to the ego but pure freedom at the same time. It causes a natural odd retreat, almost disappearing. All this action and aiming at things disappearing and an “after fog” in the mind. – Knowledge is progressively blowing up ignorance but not with any violence at all.

S: It happens so slowly for ever so long, and then, all at once.  As Hemingway said (I think)

Sundari quote: “It was the Self watching the dream and the dreamer seemingly awake in the dream”

N: This is a really important point, thank you. My mind had not yet seen this subtle difference. “I” was not “flying” even though “I” was proud that “I” could. I was observing it.

S; Always remember the true identity of that ‘I”.

Sundari quote: We learn to protect our precious peace of mind above all else. There is never anything more important than the bliss of Self and life will afford us endless opportunities to exercise that choice through discrimination. Until it becomes first and second nature, and there is no longer a need to choose because even that chooser/discriminator is gone.

N: I have not yet made this decision in my mind to make this the priority at all times. Not because I don’t see this is how it needs to be. My doubt is there are times when I need to hustle – sometimes after I see it was ego, sometimes it seems to be an emergency and “it falls to me to act”. 

S: Who needs to hustle, or make a decision to prioritise?  The ego sometimes needs to, but are you the ego? If you are ‘hustling’ or ‘deciding’ as an ego, without karma yoga, you are stuck in the whirlpool of samsara.  Are you the doer, or not?

N: The discrimination of right action, even if I know it will apparently cause, like at work, stopping something bad (it’s at least far less now of “trying to be something or attain something” thank God!) or most of all, help for family and friends in my immediate field of duty. 

S: Same question: are you the doer, or not?

N: What I know is that more than 50% of the time after acting if “I” am left with a clean nothing and no residue of “I showed them” or “oh heck I should not have done that I am so stupid” or “Aren’t I good for helping out” – then it was probably right and I do have a peaceful mind even if I might be physically tired, that is just the fuel I was given by Isawara.

S: If this is true, then genuine karma yoga was at work, and you acted according to the laws of karma and dharma, doing appropriate action in the name of Isvara, seeing that all results come from and belong to the total mind, not ‘you’ as an ego/doer.

N: I also know I will never know for the future actions – it is not up to me – but do have a foggy map now of this discrimination, to at least pause and inquire (I remember to, especially in Tamasic fog or Rajas chaos), what is the motivation here? What, not who, is pulling my strings? Very occasionally and quite by accident I have been in these situations and for some reason just said nothing and did nothing. I really know I did not decide that as a strategy.

S: The answer to all our mithya problems is understanding how resistance to what is works against us, because we are going up against Isvara.  If karma yoga is in place, doership is off the table.  How could you be the doer, when there are so many many factors involved in anything happening, at all?  What hubris. Knowing this, you take appropriate action but leave the results to Isvara. End of story.  What happens is what happens, good or bad. You are the witness of either/both.

N: On those lucky moments, perhaps with serious people who mean harm it’s like the gunas have jumped over to “them” – and the outcome is extraordinarily “good”.

S: They are not lucky moments but grace.  Another natural law in the karma/dharmafield is the law of attraction.  When the mind is pure and surrendered to Isvara, usually that infects anyone it comes into contact with.  The results are often very surprising!

N: So while the teenager me would like to think this is next level Jedi stuff I know this is totally not me, it’s all I can do to just resist every reflex jumping in me to do and, even that is not me. All I can agree on with Sam is a sattvic mind means you can reference the Knowledge!

S:  I think you can agree on a lot more than that! You are always welcome 

And much love to you both, too

Sundari

When I surrendered to you as my teacher, I felt a washing away of my ego as I had known it, which I had been focusing on for many years. I think you teach that surrendering the ego is not a step toward realization. Or do you say it cannot create realization? Is it a step toward qualification, or is there another way to express the change in the ego? I see the change in that it no longer cares about results, which seemed to be its major role prior to surrender. Also, when one lives by the values, the ego is no longer prideful, etc. Some teachers say it must be annihilated, but that is dualism, right? I have thought… you can’t kill it, but you can train it—give it duties that serve the Self.

I have many questions about “surrender” and ego. I feel I have knowledge about both, yet because they are referred to differently by different teachers, I wanted to know your stand. Would you clarify for me when you have a moment? I know I am VERY different since Self- realization, and it seems that surrendering was what made it possible to learn from you. It’s on the back doorstep, for sure.

James: Good email. It brings up several nuanced topics. Let me see if I can help. The ego is the part of you that wants results. Karma yoga is surrendering the results to God, aka life. By surrendering the results, you remove the anxiety that distorts and disturbs the ego. Nobody wants to surrender the ego or the results of their actions, nor should they. Because without an ego, who is there to enjoy the results of the surrender? If you say Awareness, you would be wrong because there is no action or results for the non-dual Self. The ego is the part of you that performs actions to enjoy results, but if there is no ego, how will it surrender or enjoy the result of surrendering? You feel high and happy because you have surrendered the results, not surrendered the ego. Ego is a good thing.

You seem to acknowledge this fact when you say, “a washing away of my ego as I had known it,” the implication being that it is still present. If the ego follows dharma and leaves the results to God, the ego is fine. Karma yoga and knowledge yoga (jnana) are duality. A surrendered ego is dualism. It is good if you understand the big picture as revealed by Vedanta. The “you” that is training the mind is a dualistic ego, looking for a result, i.e., a trained mind. Why? Because it will make the ego happier—or so it thinks. If your ego is dynamic, then keep it busy doing its spiritual practice. The ego dies the day they put you six feet under, so there is no getting rid of it. Egotism—masturbatory levels of self-regard—needs to go if you want to grow, however.

If you want to surrender your ego, there is only one way: jnana karma sannyas, which means the surrender of doership by understanding the nature of Isvara, the laws operating in the field of karma. When you appreciate the complexity of factors involved in producing action, you let go of the idea that you are a controller and accept what happens with a glad heart. You are free of the doer. Your ego is alive and seemingly happy, and you are identified with it. It has been blessed with a means of Self-knowledge and the motivation to practice it.

Wendy: Wow. I knew I shouldn’t have written you when I was so tired and rambling. I thought I would get more compassion, but I guess I just needed a kick in the butt. Self doesn’t need compassion… Self is. This letter is from my heart.

Ramji: I don’t see it as a kick in the butt. The upside is that you learned that you can’t express yourself clearly when the mind is dull. I’m not sure what compassion has to do with it, insofar as holding your emotional hand is not part of my job description. I say that a person who helps unconfuse another person is compassionate. Anyway, I’m here to help you understand the nature of reality, a topic that requires a mature mind. There are always many so-called gurus that will schmooze you…for a price.

Wendy: I understand more than is coming across, but you are the Guru, so I am listening.

Ramji: Listening is always good depending on what you understand, but how is anyone else going to understand more than one lets on, except by words and deeds? I assume that you want Self-knowledge, which requires analyzing your thinking and letting go of beliefs and opinions that are not in line with it. You have an academic background and have received thigh honors, so it is understandable that you approach Vedanta from an academic point of view. However, Self-knowledge is completely counterintuitive; we use language differently from the general population. Our aim is to teach the intellect to think from the non-dual platform, whereas the general population, including academia, is not aware of the value of non-dual thinking and thinks only from the dualistic platform.

Wendy: Here’s what is happening for me: I want to spend all my time in devotion, and I am letting “duty” interrupt my practice, as I tend to think that teaching, etc., are my duties.

Ramji: It doesn’t matter what you do or what you want. You’re a good person with good values. It matters that you do what you do in the right spirit (karma yoga). Karma yoga is devotional yoga. It is worship of God by offering actions and their results to God. You evidently believe that some activities are more spiritual than others, which they are from one point of view, but if you love God, you won’t do self-insulting or God insulting actions. God is not just Awareness; it is a moral force if you take the world into account. You have karma, you like doing karma, so do it in the karma yoga spirit. When you discover what you are with the help of Vedanta, you lose all karma. You act as the Self from that point on. If you want to do something, just do it. Nobody has a gun to your head forcing you to “teach.”

Wendy: That is where my confusion was. My confusion does not lie in not understanding Self.

Ramji: You’re right; the Self is the easy bit. But what good is understanding the Self if you don’t do karma yoga properly? You invite aggression and dullness into your mind. Karma yoga is how the self-knowing Self acts in the world when it is in a human body. If you wish you can thing of Wendy as an instrument of God or the Self. The point is that there should be no sense of doership, or if there is you should know that the doer is a seeming entity cooked up by ignorance of your wholeness.

Wendy: I know how I am different since studying Vedanta, and I know that I am burned out and need to recuperate. I don’t know that this upcoming trip will help with that, as it seems like a duty as well, to family.

Ramji: OK. If you see your family as God, it will be a pleasant trip. Anyway, appreciating Vedanta has a very positive, long-lasting impact on the mind because you discover that freedom and non-dual love are within reach. In any case, freedom is not only about your ego being different. It is about freedom from the doer/enjoyer entity, the born person. Freedom is knowing without a doubt that you are unborn. You are inspired by Vedanta, but inspiration only goes so far without a clear understanding of the teachings and the right lifestyle. You are still not clear about your priorities. If you were, you would not have this conflict.

Wendy: There is no way I can stop studying Vedanta. It is the essence of my devotion and my practice.

Ramji: Vedanta is about you. It is not an academic discipline. You can’t study it anyway; you must be taught, assuming various qualifications.

Wendy: I am very new to it in comparison to other teachings, so I don’t feel confident teaching it. Yet, when I teach it, I trust myself and my students respond to it. I was asking for guidance from you when I should have just trusted my Self.

Ramji: If you teach properly, people have no choice but to respond positively because it reveals the one unborn Self to be a steady current of bliss. You have no business teaching it if you don’t understand it and your life doesn’t model it. What would your students think about the last letter you sent? You don’t have control of your mind. It operates on its own. Meditation (upasana yoga) is for refining, concentrating, and controlling the mind. Subconscious forces (gunas) are running you. Anyway, it has nothing to do with others, only with how your mind interacts with the teaching.

Wendy: I know neither moksha nor Self is an object, Ramji. Moksha is freedom. Self is sat-cit-ananda. When I say I have moksha, I mean I am free. I know everything is working out perfectly, and I know the Self doesn’t need taking care of. I believe you are right that this transformation has been a huge wake-up call, and my mind has moved from rajas to sattva most of the time. I also believe that I have created burnout from enthusiasm around serving, learning, and becoming free.

Ramji: Yes, this is an accurate statement of your thinking. But right thinking is more or less useless unless you control your actions. If you were confident with the knowledge in your statement, your mind would remain focused and controlled; you would have seen this coming. Rajas and tamas are doing you. No blame. You are burned out. Karma yoga is burnout insurance.

Wendy: You beautifully clarified and reminded me that Isvara is in charge. I know that, and that’s why I keep doing what I am asked to do. Something happened energetically this week that made me realize I don’t have inexhaustible energy.

Ramji: Better late than never.

Wendy: So, Isvara is slowing me down.

Ramji: Isvara is very compassionate.

Wendy: Through you, Isvara is also making me look at what I do and don’t know as my essence. I ask myself… is this just my intellect? And I get, “no”… the foreground has become the background. I am just having a hell of a day/week.

Ramji: You get “no” because you need to hear “no.” It’s hard to understand you because you’re tired, but snippets of truth come out. For instance, “the foreground has become the background,” which means that the relationship between your Self, which you previously thought was an object, has been reversed by Vedanta. Isvara is reminding you that the Self is the subject and Wendy is an object. All along you thought Wendy was the subject, but Wendy is just a conceptual identity cobbled together from various real and imagined experiences.

Wendy: Again, I wish I hadn’t written in my early morning confused state. I am gathering a sense of humor about it now and will take in all you have said. My letter was from a different person who was temporarily lost. I am not willing to wait to get back on track. I am back on track.

Ramji: I’m glad you did. Regrets suck. It’s totally ironic. But the irony wasn’t there when you wrote. In any case, you didn’t write. Isvara wrote so that I could see that you are ahead of yourself spiritually. You’re doing fine. Stay humble.

Wendy: You can give up on me, but I am not giving up on Vedanta even though I know I can be a fully happy person as a karma yogi. We are having a satsang today with Rod and Mary… I’ll see where that takes me.

Ramji: Yes. If you know what it is and live it, you will be happy. However, the next step is to find out what’s beyond happiness. People come to people like me when they realize the limitation of happiness. However, it’s not the kiss of death.

Who said I was giving up on you? But I am suspicious of statements like, “I’ll see where it takes me.” I honestly don’t think you are the one to evaluate where you are at. It seems to be small self-referential, although you are doing your best to listen to me. Most strong-willed people would have picked a big fight and cooked up an excuse to write me off by now. So good for you.

Wendy: I have an automatic donation to you every month. We are happy to help in any way we can. I won’t refer to you as my Guru anymore if you don’t want me to, but you will always be the teacher that allowed me to surrender my ego to Self, and I am forever grateful.

Ramji: It is not up to me how you think about me, or what you call me. I just try to reveal the teachings. Vedanta goes to great lengths to explain the whole sadhana from A–Z so you can evaluate yourself. You do not understand the complete teaching yet, but bits and pieces of the puzzle slowly come together to get the big picture. You’re doing fine. Thanks for the donation to ShiningWorld. The money doesn’t go to us. We use your donation and our own money to propagate the teachings.

Wendy: Yes, I am back on track. I woke up as Self and meditated and read and had some major insights that correlate with what you have written. First, this is the first “overwhelm/confusion” I have had in years, so I know it was important. I will not slip back again. In my meditation I saw how this burnout began, and it had to do with me feeling like people were seeing me diffrently and projecting expectations on me which I did not feel comfortable with—so a slow sabotage began.

The Takeaway

Here’s the big thing that I got, which is kind of exciting in a weird way: I could not get comfortable with the “realized” label. My ego wanted it to mean I was different, and my heart knows I am not. I needed this humbling experience, and when I woke up this morning, I really felt different in the sense that Self is Self without any separation or difference no matter where someone is on the path. I “knew” that before, but I GOT it through this experience, and I feel much more attuned.

I want to clarify that I was not talking about teaching Vedanta. I know I am not knowledgeable enough to teach, but I can participate well in satsang. What I meant was teaching the dream work with touches of Vedanta, and the ego is a big part of dream work, which I love. I wanted to use your words, not Chinmayananda’s or anyone else’s. I have been asked by many women to teach Vedanta, but I told them I am not ready, though I can study with them. I also recommended they take your seminars this summer. They also want to do more study of the dream work with me, and I feel fully qualified in that, along with the amount of Vedanta that complements it.

I am feeling now that I had a “folly of the mind,” which has been resolved, thanks to your honesty and patience. And contrary to my previous “reads,” I actually do like what I am reading from you. It is a great relief to let go of who I thought I was. Because I always had discipline and pretty good vasanas, I see where I had a sense of arrogance around people who were less disciplined, etc. That feels washed away and replaced with deep humility and compassion for myself and others on this journey. So, I am really, really grateful that this episode happened. The fact that I was half-asleep when I wrote it and was barely coherent makes me laugh at the brilliance of Isvara/Maya. It saved me from myself! I do feel awkward in that it put so much on your lap, and I am so grateful that you are hanging in there with me. I think all the knowledge I have gained from study of the scriptures, etc., will be absorbed more deeply now, as I can see that Wendy was translating what she learned through her long history of devotion and multiple teachers.

I love learning, and I feel more open to the guru connection now. I think I was being defensive without being conscious of it. Ego at work. “The glory of life is not in never falling; the true glory consists in rising each time we fall.” —Chinmayananda

So here I am, standing again, dusting myself off, and surrendering to Self with great humility and gratitude.

I love you, Ramji.

So with this unpleasant experience.

Do I reject it because it is not me, do I sit with it in meditation until it thins down. Do I allow my feelings to be full on knowing I am not these feelings and yet they are there.  How should I act now I have seen the pattern emerge again? I do need to do some sort of action.  At least I think I do.  But as I sat with it, I also saw that if I did nothing, it is still life/ God /Isvara and maybe I don’t have to do anything. Hum I am quietly confused. I feel as if I am back at the beginning again with some of these behaviours and patterns.I would appreciate your thoughts if you have time 

Sundari: I sympathize with you regarding the difficult karmic situation that persists, and the adharma involved.  Injustices are very hard to side-step, even when you know who you are. Just don’t forget to investigate who the ‘I’ refers to that gets consumed. As the beautiful serenity prayer goes – ‘please give me the courage to change what needs to be changed, the serenity to accept what cannot be changed, and the wisdom to know the difference’. This is standard karma yoga.  

There are times that we must stand up and deal with what is at hand, and there are times when we don’t.  Either course of action you choose, don’t be the chooser/doer. Pray for guidance, be very vigilant of how the ego typically responds. Feel the feelings but objectify them. Who is the feeler? Not you, the Self.  But all the same, as the jiva is the Self, you are free to feel anything ‘as a jiva’.  Just don’t get identified and swept away by them. If a negative state of mind persists and takes over the mind, there is still a doer there, and karma yoga has not been truly applied.

Take appropriate action or not, as the case may be, with karma yoga, truly surrendering and leaving the results to Isvara. Trust that there are no bad results, only results. How you relate to them (jiva or Self?) determines how quickly peace of mind returns.

The application of Self-knowledge to our life is often very difficult in these situations. But if we do, Self-knowledge unfailing works.

With much love

‘Karma Yoga is samatvam, evenness of mind.’

Krishna asks everyone to do karma-yōga, by looking at karma-yōga from different angles. There are 4 angles in Chapter 3; outlined in a beautiful way and from whatever angle you look at karma-yōga it is wonderful.

First-angle: take the Karma Yoga way of life as a commandment of the Lord. If you cannot understand the glory or the importance of God, at least out of fear, you follow, it does not matter. This is called the attitude of Īśvara’s commandment. And just like the rules of the Government; many of them we follow not because we appreciate those laws, but because of punishment otherwise. We obey traffic signals not because of our maturity; if it is out of maturity we follow at all times; but we follow after seeing whether the speed camera is there; if it is, we obey. Even now, after so much education, we follow only out of fear; whenever there is a gross mind; we have to instill fear; for those people whose minds are gross, the Lord says follow karma-yōga, if not out of appreciation, at least out of fear; because if you do not follow, you will get pāpam, unwanted results.           

Suppose we are more mature; Kṛṣṇa says: it need not be out of fear; but it can be out of a sense of gratitude; Follow this way of life; as an offering to the Lord, as a yajña; as Swami Chinmayānanda beautifully says: What God has given you is His gift to you; what you do with what God has given, is your Gift to the Lord. So with the life, what I accomplish, what I contribute, that becomes my expression of gratitude to the Lord; therefore convert karma-yōga into yajñaḥ; this is the second-angle of karma-yōga.

Then the third-angle that Kṛṣṇa presents is karma-yōga as a purifier, śōdakam. Whether you take it as a worship of the Lord, whether you take it as Īśvara’s commandment, it does not matter; karma-yōga is the best method of cleansing your mind of rāga (attachment), dvēsaḥ (aversion), kāma (desire), krōdhaḥ (anger), lōbhaḥ (greed), mōhaḥ (delusion) , etc. Therefore śōdakam, it is a great purifier.

Then the fourth-angle of karma-yōga that Kṛṣṇa presents is karma-yōga as Dharma. Karma-yōga is the only way of life, by which cosmic harmony can be maintained; ecology can be maintained; environment can be maintained; social harmony can be maintained.

Singing in a choir means I’m part of a group. If I want to sing; what is the first and most important condition I should know? Which song they are singing. If everybody is singing a particular phrase, and you chant at a different speed and note; it creates a disharmony. Even if 20 people chant together, it becomes like one voice; but even if one chants differently the harmony is lost, it is disturbed. So therefore, I should be attuned to the melody that is there; or I should keep quiet without singing.

A karma-yōgi ‘s mind is so expanded that she/he appreciates the cosmic-orchestra; cosmic- harmony. If violated, the harmony is lost and this is called adharma; Thus follow karma- yōga as a commandment; follow karma-yōga as an expression of gratitude; follow karma-yōga as a purifier; or follow karma-yōga as dharma; whichever aspect appeals to you, take to that aspect; but follow karma-yōga.

Then Kṛṣṇa talks about the duties of a jñāni. Duties of a jñāni? Even though it may not be relevant to many people, because it is duties of jñāni; “it is not necessary for you, we are not jñānis, and also I am not going to become one in the near future”, is the thinking of some people!

But still Kṛṣṇa wants to give, from which we get valuable corollary. Corollary is more important. And what is that duty; Kṛṣṇa says a Jñāni does not require any sādhana; because he/she has already accomplished the sādhyam, the goal. A means is required only to accomplish the end; after accomplishing the end, the means become irrelevant; therefore, jñāni does not require karma-yōga; jñāni does not require jñāna-yōga; he/she does not require pūja, he/she does not require japa, he/she does not require tapas.

There are no do’s and do not’s. Kṛṣṇa says even though the jñāni does not require any discipline, all the other people in the society, being ajñānis/ unwise, they all require discipline; and therefore, as long as the jñāni is in the society, she should follow the disciplines to serve as a model to other people; because of the jñāni being great, the whole society will be looking up to her. That is what it is; when a person wants to become a great Folk Artist; then they will watch Bob Dylan right from the hairstyle onwards. Because he becomes a role model; “what is your secret of success?” In every interview it is asked; therefore a jñāni being a successful- human-being, the society wants to emulate him, imitate him, follow him and if the jñāni drops all the disciplines, and the society is already lazy and they are already waiting, for some excuse they may follow; and therefore, Kṛṣṇa says from verses 17-23

 ~ using Ramji’s translations ~

Nothing need be done by those who delight in the Self, are satisfied with the Self alone and whose lives are centered on the Self. They have no reason to do or not to do…nor do they depend on objects for their happiness. Do what is to be done well without attachment and you will attain the highest good. Not only will you attain liberation by acting in this spirit you will inspire others to act in this way. Because whatever a role model does is done by others.

I need not act. As far as I am concerned everything in the three worlds is perfect so there is nothing for me to do. Yet I act because if I become lazy and refuse to act people would follow my example. They would become confused. The social bonds that keep a society healthy would unravel and it would deteriorate.

Society wants models. Children always have the photos of different people on the wall; pin ups. Sport stars, musicians, actors and actresses. Constantly watching; that becomes the impression. If the elders are not ready to serve as good models, bad models will replace the good ones; and therefore it is the elders’ responsibility, especially a jñāni. “Therefore Arjuna, even if you are a jñāni, better do your duty; not for your sake; but for society’s sake; do not confuse them.”                                                      

So this is primarily the advice to a jñāni; but the corollary is also very important.

Indirectly through the jñāni, Kṛṣṇa is advising all the elderly-people in the society. It is not an advice to jñāni alone; but this is an advice to all the important-people who count in the life of younger-generation therefore Kṛṣṇa is giving a warning to all the parents, watch your life; because even though you do not say directly anything directly to the child; the child is watching and the audio-visual effect is more powerful than any number of advices. In fact, you need not advise at all; Lead a proper-life, that is better teaching than a hundred hours of lecturing. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa advises the parents; Kṛṣṇa advises the teachers also, which is very relevant to all the elders. This is the topic from verse No.24 verse No.29

Just as the unwise who are attached to the results of their actions act only for themselves, the wise should perform action without attachment for the good of others. They should not lecture the unwise concerning action and its results. Instead they should encourage them to act in the right spirit by example.

It is a delusion to think “I am the doer” because actions are caused by the gunas influencing the body, mind, and senses. The wise, however, remain free because they understand that body mind-sense-complex engages its objects automatically. Those unaware of how the gunas affect action get caught up in the actions of the body-mind-sense-complex. One who knows the Self should not disturb the understanding of the undiscriminating ones who don’t.

Then from verse No.30 to 35, Kṛṣṇa summarizes the whole teaching and talks about the significance of karma-yōga; the 30th verse is the most important verse of this chapter, in which Kṛṣṇa condenses karma-yōga;

 With a discriminating mind free of anger, expectation and a sense of ‘I’ and ‘mine’ offer your actions to me and fight!

If you faithfully follow this teaching without finding fault you will be freed from the results of your actions. But if you are doubtful and do not follow it you will not progress. It is wise to act in harmony with your own nature. Because all beings follow their own natures automatically what use is control?

He gives a five-point-programme to become a karma-yōgi; what are the five-factors to be taken care of to become a karma-yōgi. What are they?

1. Have your spiritual-goal as the primary priority of your life. That is the first indication of karma-yōga. Spiritual-goal is the primary-goal. We do not say that other goals are not required; but we should remember that the other goals are subservient to this primary goal. Because if all other goals do not lead to your spiritual-goal; all the other goals are utterly useless; because they are subject to arrival and departure. I earned so much money, so what? It is going to go. So therefore let the material-goal be there; but let the spiritual-goal be given top priority; therefore prioritization is No.1.

2. No.2 is Īśvarārpaṇa-buddhya sarva karma anuṣṭāna. Dedicate all your actions, as an offering to the Lord; convert work into worship; this is factor no.2. That your spiritual goal is the primary goal – No.1. and convert your work into worship is the second factor.

3. No.3 is Nirāśi; means be prepared for all types of future situations because the future is not totally under your control; you are only one of the factors determining your future; you do not say you are helpless; that is called fatalistic approach; you do not say ‘everything is predetermined’; we do not say, ‘certainly you determine your future’; but we do not say ‘you alone determine your future’; that is called arrogance. If I say you do not determine at all; everything is predetermined; that is fatalism. It’s fair to say ‘you are one of the important factors who determine your future’.

In addition to you, there are many other factors which can influence your future; and the number of factors that can influence is infinite; your husband, your wife, your children, the government, the budget, ‘my’ God, many things are there; and a war in Iraq. So therefore, the future is unpredictable, and therefore an intelligent person is one who is prepared for facing any type of future; and that preparation is the third factor of karma-yōga; and that preparation is prasāda-buddhi. Lord whatever is the genuine result; let it come to me; and if it is going to be unfavourable, I cannot ask you to change the law for my sake, if it is unfavourable, give me the required mindset, so that I can accept that and work to improve the future. So this is called prasāda-buddhi; or preparedness to accept the future. Then there is no anxiety at all. Anxiety is unpreparedness to face the future.

4. Then the fourth-condition or factor is Nirmamaḥ; when success comes, do not claim the total credit; even though you are responsible for your success; you are not the only one responsible for your success. There are infinite factors other than you; which all put together we call daivam; you may call it luck; you may call it daivam, you may call it grace; you may call it purva puṇyam; some X factor, all external factors together is called daivam. Therefore in success, remember the Lord’s grace. That is called humility. Nirmamaḥ means be humble; take wherever credit is due to you. ‘I did not do anything, I did not do anything’, you need not say. If you had not done anything, you would not have got anything; let us also not be falsely humble; therefore, I have certainly done, I have certainly worked hard; day and night; worked; wonderful; let me remember, that is not the only factor; other factors were favourable; Thank God! This is called humility in success. Acceptance in failure; humility in success; these are the hall marks of a karma-yōgi; this is the fourth-factor.

5. Fifth and final factor is vigata-jvaraḥ; maintain mental-poise, mental-equanimity, mental-balance, which is extremely difficult; but if the first four factors are followed, the fifth factor is almost a natural consequence; so vigata-jvaraḥ, avoid mental feverishness; otherwise called samatvam.

Sundari: Karma yoga and dharma cannot be separated.  It is correct that acting according to your nature, (i.e., your svadharma), is necessary to take appropriate action at the appropriate time. Karma yoga is doing so in the spirit of consecration or worship, and even when acting for a specific result, not wanting things to be different, offering your actions to Isvara knowing the results are not up to you. It’s the ‘not wanting things to be different’ that messes with most people’s minds and makes karma yoga so difficult, because we are primed with conscious and unconscious likes and dislikes, fears and desires.

Ken: I have a strong business vasana. I like putting ideas into reality and building things. Not necessarily for making money but for customers and employees, and of course for me to feel useful and effective. But it really doesn’t bother me too much if I don’t win business or lose a customer, claiming to have integrated the Karma Yoga attitude quite well.

Sundari: Excellent

Ken: I also understand that actions are a way of expressing your gratitude to Ishvara and therefore you have to contribute.

Sundari: There are two stages of karma yoga. Secular karma yoga is taking appropriate action to achieve a certain result, so there is a doer involved. The second stage is karma yoga sannyas (sacred karma yoga), where you relinquish the idea of doership altogether. All actions are automatically taken in this knowledge, there is no ‘practice’ of karma yoga, as such.  It is an attitude of complete surrender to Isvara, which is really, a devotional practice, bhakti yoga. At this stage, karma yoga and bhakti yoga are inseparable. There is immediate spontaneous acceptance of life as it is, and all outcomes, even the tough ones. You live without a shadow of a doubt that Isvara, the Total Mind, is taking care of everything, including you, perfectly.

Ken: But I heard Ramji often say: The world is in perfect order, you don’t need to fix it. 

So why then contribute?

Sundari: Why not contribute, if you can and it is appropriate?  If you do so in the spirit of karma yoga, you are acting in the name of and for Isvara. How else is Isvara going to get things done (deliver the karma) if not through the jivas, who knowingly or not, share the same identity as the Self? Of course, the proviso here is that you genuinely act in the spirit of karma yoga, and not as the deluded ego ‘trying to make a difference’. That’s when things get sticky.

Ken: I feel a strong urge to write and speak about self-reliance, ownership, self-improvement and libertarianism. Freedom is a value I hold very dear, and I strongly believe the world would be a much better place if everybody overcame fear and acted according to his nature.

Sundari: There is nothing wrong with having high ideals. But there is a big danger in the idea that you can make the world a better place. That is 100% the doer talking. If you are truly practicing karma yoga, you make a contribution accepting the fact that Isvara alone knows why things are the way they are.  If Isvara needs you to effect change and make a contribution, do so if you are able to and it is appropriate. But not as the doer who believes it can make a difference. There is no karma yoga there. Expect blowback karma because you are saying that you know better than Isvara what ‘should’ happen. Not a good idea.

Ken: On the other hand I don’t want to lecture people or be intrusive.

Sundari: Well, make up your mind. If you want to make a difference as a doer, you must take the consequences.  Whereas if you truly act with genuine karma yoga because you know all life is non-different from you and all is perfect the way it is, the karma does not come to you as the Self.

Ken: So how do I recognize when acting out my program ends and fixing the world begins?

Sundari: When you realize that the world does not need fixing and Isvara does not need you to fix it. If your services are required, and you respond with karma yoga, you will be working with the natural harmony of life. This egoic need to make a difference will go away, and you will just do what you do when you do it because it’s what’s in front of you.

Hari Om

Sundari

Sundari: You are most welcome, as always Christian. You cannot not experience nondual Consciousness every second of every day, or the body/mind would be no more. However, ‘walking it’, which means for the mind/ego to be trained to think from the perspective of nonduality, and to discriminate between reflected consciousness and nondual Consciousness, is where all the ‘work’ of inquiry takes place. And while the inquirer needs to ‘show up’ and ‘do the work’, equally important is the realization that though it is only the ego/mind that must get ‘retrained’, the doer cannot retrain the ego/mind.  Only through the assimilation of Self-knowledge does highly resistant ignorance (duality) get scrubbed from the mind.

Christian: The gunas I now understand in this context: the mind is 70% wired to negativity confirmed by scientific evidence – but can also be inferred logically; going back 50 thousand years to our ancestors and well before that into the hundreds of thousands for early humans (as for every other animal on earth now) – “fight or flight” in the non-thinking part of the brain, triggered by overcaution, was crucial to survival.

Sundari: Yes, correct. The blueprint for sentient beings has not changed that much since Isvara evolved sentient life on this planet, and evolution ‘allowed’ for self-reflectivity to develop.

Christian: “Manusha” as the Rishis named humans – “the ones who think” – I take to mean the prefrontal cortex and is costly to run in terms of energy – discrimination and dispassion, empathy, communication, the ability to infer – all require more energy and knowledge; these are not tamasically driven (“it is harder to do the right thing” i.e. not lazy) nor quick fixes rajas chases after.

Sundari: Subjective self-reflectivity affects how the gunas play out, especially before we are guna educated and understand their existence and significance. When we do know, we can learn how to relate to and manage the gunas for peace of mind. It’s appealing to think of God/Isvara in the form of evolution weighing up the pros and cons of bestowing the faculty of self-reflectivity onto an upgraded animal form – thus ‘creating’ thinking/feeling bipedal humans. I can use my imagination to picture God having to take a lot into consideration. On the one hand, this would put humans at the top of the pecking order of sentient beings, seeming the roof and crown of creation. But it also would make them extremely troublesome!  Just take a look at the world to see how things worked out, the mess it’s in thanks to this faculty…Oi vey. Maybe Isvara should take this ‘gift’ back…, though it appears that Isvara really likes ignorance because there is so much of it! 

So, God went along with the idea, but made it difficult for the poor jiva, maybe even went a bit overboard with ignorance… Though Self-knowledge is built into all sentient life, after all, this is and always been a nondual reality. But humans are subject to mithya, the hypnosis of duality. Which means that Self-knowledge is not easily available. All the same, God was merciful because the upside is that being self-reflective grants humans an eventual out-card from their expanded, but still limited, human programme (assuming certain qualifications have developed), by realizing their true identity as the unlimited Self. 

On the downside, self-reflectivity would make jivas capable of thinking and feeling. More accurately, to know that they are thinking and feeling. Hence, thanks to inbuilt ignorance, the feeling of inadequacy, fear and worry would be jiva’s destiny, chasing answers in the world of objects, desperately seeking control. Another downside is that with the gift of self-reflectivity comes relative free will (which humans mistake for complete free will). Thus, humans are capable of going against their program and breaking dharma, causing much injury and suffering to themselves and to the field of life. 

We tend to anthropomorphize animals, though they do have rudimentary intellects and can feel, and thus suffer. But because they do not have the gift or curse of self-reflection, they are in total ignorance of the true nature of reality, and have no objectivity about their existence. They do not know what they are thinking and feeling, so they cannot go against their program. Unlike humans, they do not worry or try to control outcome. An animal is bound by its instinctive program, and if it is neurotic, its usually due to it’s contact with humans. Though some animals like elephants and some primates show some self-objectivity, no animal feels, thinks or ‘knows’ in the way human beings compute. Therefore, as much as animal lovers hate to hear this, though all sentient beings suffer, no sentient being other than humans knows they are suffering to the extent that we do. They simply do not have the same program.

Christian: My mind will default to either rajas or tamas unless a conscious counter-attitude is applied, with knowledge of why. The consequences of tamas / rajas will automatically happen if I don’t, as default and reflex. This is not bad, it just is the way it is, it is not a sin nor anything other than not knowing (ignorance, rather than stupidity) and especially for this stage of human development. Without Vedanta and the effort of the teachings, it would likely be the default for all – except a few “enlightened beings” !

Sundari: Well put. As I said in my talk last Sunday, we cannot control the gunas or how they manifest. Very often, we don’t need to ‘do’ anything other than to observe how they are playing out and not identify with them. At the same time, sattva is the guna to aim for if we want peace of mind, so managing the relative proportions of rajas and tamas to sattva is what mind management entails. This may or may not require ‘doing’ something about rajas or tamas, in the karma yoga spirit, of course.

There are definitely appropriate actions we can take to reign in too much rajas, or to give too much tamas a kick in the butt. The mind (ego) will resist all of them of course. But when Self -knowledge has activated dispassion and discrimination as the default, we can manage rajas and tamas before they drag the mind deeper into extroversion/fragmentation in the case of rajas, of dullness and denial in the case of tamas. Too little rajas or tamas and too much sattva can also be a problem as it can turn the mind into a “space cadet”. Or worse, spiritually vain. More on this below.

Christian: More recently studies have shown “humans have no free will” – though the Jiva / Ego believes there is free will – and it appears this temporal belief is useful for practicing Karma Yoga or (apparent) action would never happen. Tamas would then rule, inevitably. While my Jiva is more wired to Rajas, the outcome “back to Maya!” is the same. James sometimes asks in Satsangs about the references for these studies and I can recommend a recent book Determined: A Science of Life without Free Will by Robert Sapolsky which summarises the evidence in the scientific terms he asks about, which Vedanta has known for centuries.

Sundari: The science on the topic is pretty well established, though we do have relative free will in that we can (apparently) choose one thing over another. If this were not so, success in anything mithya would be impossible. But the bigger nondual picture makes it clear that those choices are based on built in likes and dislikes that come from and are controlled by the Causal body, or Macrocosmic unconscious (Isvara). To effect a lasting change in the way the mind works requires two views, as usual, with all satya – mithya discrimination.  I wrote this for an inquirer this week:

The key to freedom is managing our feelings and the repetitive thought patterns that give rise to them through guna management. From this perspective, even if the mind is not peaceful (sattvic), it does not interfere with our baseline experience as the Self, satya. This is the essence of the guna teaching.  The only meaningful way to change the habitual patterns the mind runs on is to make a permanent change on the Causal level, through Self-knowledge.  So, here it seems that there are two things going on, which in mithya, there always is (apparently). Let me explain.

1. Mithya: To change things on the mithya, or cause and effect level, we need to have knowledge of and manage the gunas and practice karma yoga.  In this way, even though the mind is conditioned by the Causal body, to render binding likes and dislikes non-binding, we must re-educate the ego and subjugate it to the knowledge that it is not in control. One can even put this into practice without approaching discrimination between satya, pure nondual Consciousness, and mithya, reflected consciousness, duality. This greatly improves life for the jiva, but it is not moksa.

2. Satya: For moksa to obtain, Self-knowledge must free the mind of bondage to and identification with the body/mind, entirely. This requires satya – mithya discrimination, which if it assimilates, makes a permanent change in the Causal body – in Isvara. It is possible to effect a change in the Causal body because there is a common identity between Isvara and the jiva, which is non-reflected, or nondual Consciousness. But this is not easy because until ignorance is completely eradicated, there is still identification with the person, and their likes and dislikes. This is why nididhysana is usually the longest part of self-inquiry.

Essentially, these two points elucidate the difference between secular karma yoga, which is for doers, and jnana yoga, which is for inquirers qualified for moksa. At this point, what keeps some inquirers stuck is that they erroneously believe that they must study Vedanta to ‘Self-actualize’. While it is important to memorize all the teachings correctly, this will not produce moksa, Self-actualization. Self-actualization obtains when Self-knowledge has eradicated all duality, and the identification with the person is no more.  Here, satya mithya discrimination no longer applies because you are what is actual. Ignorance and knowledge are both objects known to you.

Christian: So I now see baselines in oneself for gratitude, even if just the slimmest but permanent reasons to be “cheerful in the face of adversity” are vital. Not as an empty epithet or a “Hallmark card” but truths which do not fluctuate – for both the darkest not right times and the lucky times; this brings perhaps the surrender you mention (?) allows continuance of the Sattvic mind without claim on either as “being bad or good” or worse a “good or bad person” either way. Tiny outcomes; part of a vast universe in a huge timeline which is beautiful in itself that it exists!

Sundari: Self-knowledge does not give us immunity against what seems like terrible, outrageous karma, or even ‘just’ the daily pin pricks of life that cause death by a thousand cuts for most. But when karma yoga and Self-knowledge become your default approach to everything and dispassion rules (i.e., surrender to Isvara), life becomes light, unencumbered. You can be joyous, despite ‘good or bad’ jiva karma because you no longer have the existential angst of trying to ‘do your life’. Isvara knows much better than the jiva does what is best for you and will give you what you need, one way or the other. And best of all, karma yoga puts the responsibility for any outcome not on you but on Isvara. What a pleasant thought! With that, we can start to understand the meaning of ‘let go and let God’.

The tricky part is that nondual vision nullifies all things mithya – which is anything related to the jiva, the field of experience and the Causal body. Everything is an object known to me, so who cares about ‘cleaning up’ the residual habits? There is no hard and fast rule on this because as the Self, you are free to live as you see fit. With only one real injunction: moksa is for the mind, the jiva; as the Self, you have never been bound. To be happy as a jive means following dharma and non-injury.  Your residual habits may only be injurious to you, and if you are too old/too sick/ couldn’t care or it’s too late to change, well, so be it. We know many Self-realized people who just cannot muster the will to change their bad habits, and keep living with the blowback karma from their ‘bad’ choices.

As the Self you are free of karma, but that does not mean you will escape the prarabdha karma in the pipeline for the body/mind.  A suffering body/mind is not much fun to experience, as we all know. And if your habits cause injury to others, well, that is not following dharma.  You will not feel good about it and it will cause agitation. Again, it’s our call. We are no less the Self either way. Only we will know if the Advaita shuffle is in play.

Christian: This attitude, while apparently hard to remember and practice initially, does get easier with time as you say, like training a muscle. I just was not aware I was doing this somewhat haphazardly and randomly.

Sundari: Retraining the mind/ego from its habitual built in dualistic operational system to permanent nonduality is no mean feat – veritably, it’s like David, jiva or system 2, going up against Goliath, Causal body, system 1. But it can be done because lucky for the beleaguered jiva, as previously stated, a permanent change can be made in the Causal body (only with Self-knowledge) because Isvara and jiva share the same identity as the Self. 

Christian: When Sattva is the predominant guna, it allows the Self to be reflected in us. Sattva means the absence of tamas and rajas tested especially under the duress of what life throws at the Jiva as long as we are alive. Sattva is not a state to be attained (e.g. in a cave) going “poof” the moment tamas or rajas rise, in or outside the cave.

Sundari: Sattva is the nature of the mind, and a pure mind is predominantly sattvic, true. But all three gunas are always present. In the creation story, or cause and effect teaching, pure sattva, prior to tamas and rajas appearing, is the pure mirror of Consciousness, called prakriti, or Maya.  Sattva provides the knowing function—it is Consciousness appearing as the Knower, Isvara, or God. Sattva is the intelligence part of creation, but alone cannot create. For the creation to manifest, we need tamas for the existence part of the blueprint, and rajas to put all blueprints into action.

Where your statement is incorrect is a mistake many inquirers make. It sounds like sattva can be experienced on its own. Spiritual types love this idea and mistake sattva for moksa. It also gives rise to a lot of spiritual vanity. But sattva, while it is the springboard guna for moksa because a mind run by rajas and tamas would not be qualified for it, it is impossible to separate the gunas. None is better than any other. 

Even though the nature of the mind is sattva, when the mind is extremely sattvic, rajas and tamas are also there, but in balance with sattva, so they don’t cause mental/emotional disturbance.  Additionally, even though sattva is the subtlest manifestation of Sat, Consciousness, like the other two gunas, it is an object known to Consciousness. It is not in and of itself, conscious, although by virtue of Consciousness, sattva makes conscious awareness and self-reflectivity possible for sentient beings.

Christian: The bliss which then may arrive cannot be owned, experienced or bottled as such and yet, it fundamentally “is” us because that is all that is left when we see it and this memory holds even under the influence of rajas and tamas.

Sundari: The bliss of the Self is always present and definitely experienceable, in fact, that is all you are ever experiencing.  It is only thanks to Maya extroverting (rajas) and suppressing (tamas) the mind that makes it so difficult to become aware of our unexamined experience, which is ever-present and unchanging Consciousness. While it is true that everything is known in the mind only in the form of a thought or feeling, the bliss of the Self is neither. The bliss of the Self is not produced by and cannot be removed by any experience, be it a thought or a feeling. It is just the Existence, the non-experiencing witness, the unlimited ever present fullness aware of the apparent ever-changing limited experiencing entity, which is unknown to the mind thanks to the hypnosis of duality.

Much love

Sundari

ShiningWorld.com

Thank you for the Satsangs.

I read about karma yoga again and my notes on Sadhana which have both got me thinking. I was off to the gym after reading about karma yoga again and it made me realise how I say I hate the gym but I go anyway. So I thought of gratitude and that instead of hating the gym I am grateful for the fact there’s such a lovely empty studio there to practice in, I’m so lucky to have somewhere so close I can walk to it and I’m so grateful for it’s pool and sauna! So no more ‘hate gym’ and instead gratitude.

Sadhana gave me pause for thought. My notes talk about a disciplined practice that (amongst other practices) involves surrendering the ego. I need to work on this, so much! I appreciate this takes time and so much practice. I think perhaps catching oneself and letting it go? Recognising the Self and that I am only that, nothing else is real?

But putting it into practice is hard, before I know it I think I have to be right about something, or be seen to be a ‘good person’. I am beginning to realise that my point of view is not important and that in social discussions if it doesn’t come across it doesn’t matter, that does feel like a good release.

No worries about answering if you are busy Kate, as always, but next time we’re online I’d love to hear more about this.

(I have ordered Rory’s new book which will arrive today and look forward to being deep in it! )

Loads of love as always,

Kate: Great to read your words! A positive shift to gratitude, so much nicer for the systems, takes the “chore” feeling of everyday life. My mother is excellent at this.”Isn’t it great to be able to do it!” She would say for duties, washing up, gardening, painting you name it. It took me some time to really adopt karma yoga sincerely, now I’m even seeing Isvara ‘doing’ my actions, I take my lead from Isvara and manage the gunas accordingly (remember you can always say ‘no’ to Isvara!) This leads me into your questions which I think we can tie in…

My notes talk about a disciplined practice that (amongst other practices) involves surrendering the ego.

I would say it is the ego that needs practice. The Self is already pure and perfect. It’s for the sake of the Self you do anything. Think about it. Every action you do is to remove some sense of limitation. Eat to remove hunger. Work-out to remove lethargy. Read a book to remove boredom. Of course you can see it as adding energy and stimulation to the body/mind. It’s a both/and not an either or, a ‘no-sum’ reality. You see duality play out, ‘see how the pendulum swings’, therefore it can’t be real. For every gain there’s a loss and every loss there’s a gain, but what’s real, Me, the Self never changes.

However I understand where you’re coming from with surrender. One should surrender the mind / the ego to the teaching. These words are Isvara’s words, they don’t come from humans, they come to humans, they haven’t been corrupted and don’t have an agenda other than ‘suffering is bad’. All Isvara is saying is you’re totally great, just as you are. Follow the logic the teaching presents, pretty soon you’ll see it makes perfect sense! You can trust knowledge. Let it take care of your life. I think what you’re catching is the ‘knower/doer split’. It’s like Jekyll and Hyde. The knower knows what is good for oneself, the doer has all the clever justifications to procrastinate or sabotage. Everyone experiences this.

Recognising the Self and that I am only that, nothing else is real?

Yes and if you continue to take a stand in your true nature you’ll see how silly the jiva’s fancies and fusses are. Standing in your true nature you know wholeheartedly ‘I am what is good in every time, place and circumstance’ This heals the past and takes care of the future. See all beings as Isvara, this mighty reflection of myself, although most albeit temporarily bewitched by ignorance – not knowing the difference between what is real and unreal, they suffer endlessly in the ocean of misery.

I am beginning to realise that my point of view is not important and that in social discussions if it doesn’t come across it doesn’t matter, that does feel like a good release.

Yes good for you, so what if I’m ‘understood’ or not, how are we ever to know what goes on in anyone else’s mind, the best we can do is infer what they think or feel and even then, caring what others think of you is a waste of time. There are no ‘others’. If I see you as me, I won’t injure or hurt you in any way. Or fear you for that matter. That being said, no good deed goes unpunished or keeping in mind the law of unintended consequences. Say what you gotta say and let go of the need for any certain outcome. “All beings follow their nature. What use is control?” Karma yoga all the way, acting in accordance with my nature, appropriate and timely, with the right attitude. My words, deeds and thoughts need to be in yoga, harmony, less room for conflict. You want to make your jiva happy here, it’s a beautiful reflection of You after all. Let the sadhana, the truth be the centre of your life and ‘life’/worldly stuff on the periphery, not the other way round. Otherwise the tendency is to run off the old program which sees itself as separate and inadequate and doing lots of actions to complete itself.

Waking up as the Self, you wake up fresh every day. You’re the boss! No formula or prescription for the ‘perfect spiritual person’, (which there aren’t any by the way) you’ve affirmed, confirmed and validated – I’m already perfect as the Self! By default my program/jiva tunes in to what’s best to make myself happy, to my environment and its needs, I trust Isvara implicitly to unfold my journey every step of the way. Things may not always be smooth, no worries! I don’t feel obliged to do or not do. I don’t feel guilty if I do or don’t. Letting the teaching transform your life is the gateway to constant steady bliss. If anything practice doesn’t feel like practice anymore, but just a natural outpouring of love of the Self. Everything is a blessing. Truly. See this marvel of life here. It says in the Bhakti Sutras – the Yoga of Love something like this ‘How amazing Isvara is. How great the teaching, the teacher, that led me back to Me and freedom. How great I am for all my efforts, perseverance and understanding.’ Differences cease and I relax into is-ness, pure Being.

Hope this helps, let me know.

Always a pleasure to converse with you,

Love,

Kate

Sundari: Our brains are wired to notice patterns, but they don’t always pick the healthiest ones. In fact, we’re naturally inclined to focus on problems—it’s a survival instinct (negativity bias) that keeps us alert to danger. This tendency is useful when avoiding literal threats, but it’s less helpful when it keeps us stuck in a loop of negativity (tamas). This is where gratitude (sattva) comes in. Neuroscience confirms what we know as Vedantins, that though our thoughts and emotions are guna dependent and objects known to us, they shape our brains over time. Science calls this experience-dependent neuroplasticity. 

A sure way to combat our inbuilt negativity bias is to focus on gratitude. This creates a new vasana by strengthening neural pathways associated with positivity, making it easier to notice the good in our lives—even when it feels scarce. That doesn’t mean forcing yourself to feel grateful when you’re struggling. It’s not about pretending everything is fine or dismissing challenges. It’s about choosing, even in small ways, to shift your focus to what’s still good, still steady, or still worth appreciating, and what we appreciate, appreciates. I.e., choosing sattva.

Gratitude goes hand in hand with humility, and both are essential ingredients in managing the mind with reference to the gunas, in combination with karma yoga, the practice of sacrificing habitual binding tendencies (likes and dislikes) in sublimation to a higher ideal – freedom from and for the jiva, or person.  Karma yoga does not work without humility and gratitude. The field of existence is forever changing—and as we are part of the field, the ability to be grateful deeply changes us. It brings to our attention the abundance of life.  When the abundance of life becomes our focus, abundance grows, and fear lessens. 

The more gratitude we have, the more we have for which to be grateful; it is the best attitude to have to everything. Taking all results as prasad. A sattvic mind lives in gratitude because it sees life as a great gift from the field, call it God, Isvara, or whatever.  Such a mind does not need to dig up a feeling of gratitude or remind itself to ‘to be grateful’.  Gratitude is always present when sattva dominates rajas and tamas. This is because a sattvic mind knows that life is not about indulging the likes and dislikes of the wanting person, but it is about appreciating the Self, the one who does not want anything other than what it is. 

Frank: Now thanks to Vedanta, I can now start to differentiate when the ego Jiva is acting and expecting the results it wants, versus, I as the Jiva, as part of Iswara (?), making an action with the intention of giving the results back to Iswara and accepting the results either way, as a gift from God, is still new. Is this the fight that Krisna is referring to in Chapter 3 verse 19 of the Gita?

“Therefore, giving up attachment, perform actions as a matter of duty (because) by working without being attached to the fruits….”

Sundari: Yes, this is the fight we have on our hands when subjecting the mind to self-inquiry. Self-knowledge must train the ego to give up wanting things to be the way it wants them to be, instead of accommodating to the way life is. At first this requires dedication to the value of surrender, and great vigilance. The ego is not happy about relinquishing control, and as you say, karma yoga is not easy. As the mind is programmed by Isvara to experience life as a duality, it takes a lot to negate the ego and transfer our identity to the Self, which is the only way to end all worry and fear permanently. Be assured that with practice, this gets easier. 

As the mind is trained to think differently, and the built in fearful duality program gets gradually replaced by fearless nondual vision, all actions we take are appropriate, in keeping with the flow of life, as it is presented to us. The mind/ego may still chatter on or complain about this or that, but it has no real power to influence anymore. Dharma is automatic, the default. But this takes as long as it takes. As I say so often, you can take refuge in the knowledge that no matter where the mind is in the process of freedom from bondage, you are never not the Self.

Frank: The intellect, thanks to Vedanta, is able to differentiate through knowledge that the Jiva (the entity I always thought I was) believes it is an independent, free will entity and by definition alone (aka “independent”) – in a sea of Samara, buffeted by Mithya which life continually demonstrates and within this, is a permanent never changing point of awareness which I see almost all people recognise albeit clouded at times. 

Sundari: As the fire of Self-knowledge works on the mind, ignorance starts to ‘evaporate’, and what was always there ‘becomes’ known. Even though what was always there – the knower – is what makes knowing anything possible and was never not present, nor ever will be.  Everyone does have a sense of this, though duality is very difficult to remove from the mind, and it won’t happen unless the mind has come to its knees and seen that there are no solutions in life (mithya/duality). Life is a zero sum, from the mithya perspective. But that is not the end, or the ultimate truth. It is the beginning of finding the Holy Grail – the fullness of Self that makes life infinitely rich, whole and beautiful, because you are the source of all of it.

Frank: The “choice” is to “do it for the Jiva or do it for God” but whether Arjuna even makes that “choice” is only apparently up to him as I see it now. His duty is his duty which is greater than him. The recognition of it by his intellect, through Krishna, is the gift he is given.

Sundari: We often teach the truth that dharna trumps moksa. Without following dharma, our lives will never give us what we all long for the most, which is peace of mind. This is true for everyone, no matter how enlightened or depraved. Arjuna cannot understand jnana yoga at first, so Krishna teaches him karma yoga, which he applies to the situation at hand, and he does his duty. But eventually, he is taught and becomes qualified for jnana yoga.

Frank: Contemplating and acting in this spirit conscientiously the last months has produced new apparent battles. I went down a rabbit hole of Christianity dualism and for a couple of weeks, feeling as the ego Jiva “ok this is really like the thing I always rejected at school prayer”, started praying with a feeling of being good but at the same time felt it was misplaced – but how could this be wrong? Am “I” evil?

It’s a vasana – my parents often moved house and sometimes I would be in one school and then a new one every year or so. I wasn’t particularly good at school but one time had done “something good” and was taken by the nun to “see Mary” at the grotto shrine. At 7 years old. I came home and told my father thinking it would be rewarded. He was furious, roasted the nuns and I didn’t go back the next day.

All this came up again now after decades – am I on the edge of making this choice again? I even read parts of the Bible, even prayed like back then but now felt constricted in the chest – a tightening – me as the Jiva back into duality – “I do this, God will like it and I’ll be ok”. The only way I can resolve this contradiction (which has repeated itself countless times over life) was to re-read your “Isvara knows only the Self”. 

Sundari: It’s ok. The mind conditioned by duality will do battle with nonduality because it is so counterintuitive. For the ego, which does not relish its demise, nonduality is extremely ‘unsafe’. It cowers in the face of freedom because it is ‘too big’. Too much. What blasphemy! The smallness of the separate ego giving rise to the desire to seek absolution from the insidious idea of being born a ‘sinner’, subject to evil, while desperately trying to be ‘good’, is hard to shake.

I think this happens to many inquirers. Christian values have infiltrated much of secular society, but especially those conditioned by religious dogma. However, once Self-knowledge has taken a foothold, even a toe hold, it is hard for the mind to ‘go back’ to duality entirely. It does happen, we have seen it, but not often. Assuming enough of the qualifications are sufficiently developed. If not the mind could once again be subsumed by duality. Hence the need for vigilance.

Frank: So yes I can see Christ as a light, a temporary appearance within Isvara of many other lights (heresy! apostate!) and I can fully accept Christ- but the daring terrifying idea, I cannot accept what ignorance has since done with Christianity nor do I need to “be Christian”.

Sundari: Christ or Krishna/Shiva/Brahman, same thing. Worship the symbols, but don’t objectify them. All symbols point to only one principle, the nondual Self.  The religions of this world have a lot to answer for in terms of inflicting horrendous suffering. But all the ‘evil’ in the world, not just that inflicted by religions of whatever ilk, are the result of the lack of Self-knowledge, of Isvara.

Frank: As the Self it is not “me down here and God up there” nor is it “me as the Self loving an object” – of any specific kind, including Christ and expecting results, or thinking because I do, then I am ok or everything will be ok now or after death. 

Sundari: Who dies? Only the body/ego. There is no before or after death for you, the Self. Knowing this as incontrovertible truth is freedom.

Frank: In other words, believing in Christ, or any religion, with the expectation of results (good karma) is as binding as anything else. While perhaps “better” than not “believing in Christ” and acting adharmically, dharma is not the proprietary patent of Christianity or any other dualistic religion. None are a guarantee as it is not up to the Jiva, as the last 2000 years clearly demonstrate across all religions.

Sundari: Most definitely. Amen to that.

Frank: It is a “thing” I have rebelled against all my life – perhaps that my father was the way he was (staunch atheist) and my mother loves the Gita, rejected Christianity (but loves Christ) and they certainly loved each other. The rebellion was only fighting the apparent duality I see now and could never understand between them.

Sundari: Interesting life karma you had. As James guru said to him: You are what you are rebelling against. Though I can understand that growing up with that contradiction in values must have caused great confusion.  Be thankful as it is what brought you to Vedanta.

Frank: Whatever the explanation, what is clear for me now is to take up the bow and fight. I am so annoyed in a good way, with how this weak, back and forth game has gone on for so long. The issue I am still struggling with is where/who to address action to – I know not to the ego / Jiva – I see this, feel it tangibly. Is it then everything else which is not that without any specific trap hole of a dualistic God appearance?

Sundari: Being annoyed with your (not) self will not help much, though a healthy contempt for the ego can be useful at times. Every moment of life is a unique and sacred gift from Isvara, no matter how trivial, banal, sublime or terrible. If you are not the doer, doing is not a problem, and it never ends.  It is only the identification with doing that is the problem. Take life on a moment to moment basis as your guide.  Whatever we need to know is always given to us. We just need to look and listen.

Manage the gunas so that you always aim for sattva, making sure that rajas does not run away with the mind or tamas veil it. Follow dharma and act on what is appropriate, knowing without a thought that the results are not up to you. When you live this way, what is there to worry about? Whatever happens, happens; it’s not on you. And you will be fine, no matter what. Choose the quiet joy of Self-knowledge, consciously deliberately, thought by thought, by thinking the opposite thought, taking a stand in Awareness, and making gratitude your shield and your MO.

With much love,

Sundari

Sundari: Good for you.  Karma yoga is the only sane and intelligent way to live, especially if you understand how our likes and dislikes colour and control everything about our lives.  Wanting things to be other than the way Isvara presents them to us is deeply problematic. Though of course there are times that it is very wise to say no to Isvara because it manifests in our lives both as dharma and adharma. So learning to discriminate between truly appropriate and gratuitous action is vital to peace of mind.

Yes I know exactly what you mean about karma yoga feeling like learning to drive in a different country. Coming from South Africa, as you do in Britain, I learned to drive on the ‘wrong’ side of the car, the right! I had to train my brain to respond appropriately to driving on the road on the right side of the car, which in Europe is the left.  This is a good metaphor for Maya.  It reverses the truth of life and conditions the poor jiva to live according to its binding likes and dislikes – a sure recipe for suffering.  Self-knowledge reverses that reversal, but it does involve training the mind to think differently. Along with the application of guna knowledge, karma yoga is life and insanity burnout insurance.

Michael: When I was a teenager, I got ditched by a beautiful girlfriend. It felt like the end of the world and I remember walking a long way home in the dark and despite the “loss” was hit in the forehead by this “pulsing” – a profound feeling that it was all OK – even though my emotions and especially identity were in turmoil. This point above the eyes, about the size of a penny, continued pulsing on and off to this day. The Jiva has never been able to control it or make it “happen”. It comes and goes like a compass, when it likes but seems to be associated with things like listening to the scriptures, exchanges with you or just being quiet.

Sundari:  Interesting, I have heard this phenomenon happens to some inquirers – the activation of the pineal gland as the third eye physical sensory signal. It can be helpful as a reminder to discriminate and apply Self-knowledge when strong emotions threaten to take over the mind, which is something they are very good at doing!

Michael: As I continued with the karma yoga practice in the last weeks the pulsing went up to the crown of my head and much larger – for the first time ever in 40 years. This continued on and off  for a few weeks, a bit like the matrix film where all these bits are moving in and around me, including all that I thought was “me” the Jiva and I want literally nothing, just seeing any act as giving to the field.

Sundari: Excellent. A sure sign of Self-knowledge assimilation.

Michael: Then about a week ago, just before you wrote, I went out to a party and let go a bit, feeling I needed a break from everything. It promptly disappeared, I found myself back as the Jiva. I knew what had happened as a memory but was now “lost”. But I knew now I was lost, like someone enveloped in fog, groping for a map. So I got back to the scriptures, listening to Satsang, cleaning, picking up Vivekachudamani, from the beginning. I also realised, possibly for the first time, the value of the 3 Gunas teaching. 

Sundari:  Maya is incredibly powerful.  If we still have residual likes and dislikes, or binding vasanas, it can easily hook us and pull the mind back into its samsaric whirlpool. There is nothing wrong with ‘letting our hair down’ occasionally, but eternal vigilance is the price of freedom. We must ‘sin’ intelligently. The fact that the pulsing disappeared when you got sucked back in is a good indication of what was happening.  But don’t get seduced into thinking that unless the pulsing is present, you are off course.  You are never not the Self and, though it can be helpful, you don’t need any physical reminder of that. Only keeping the mind on the Self, and discriminating satya from mithya.

Michael: With our exchanges and the incredible gratitude I feel, this is all grace. To answer your kind question – I am fine, back to basics, feeling as grateful as ever and having learnt another lesson along the way. Nothing develops faith in the teaching like grace picking one up and then one’s Jiva dropping one down – the resulting knowledge is crystal clear. Much love to you both and thank you,

Sundari: I am so happy to hear this, Michael.  Good for you, and keep up the great work.  Vedanta works to produce the most elusive and prized thing, peace of mind. It makes sense of the craziness of life, while at the same time, delivering to us it’s true sanctity and incredible gifts.

With much love, always and all ways

Sundari

Are you speaking as person, jiva or as Consciousness Atma?

This is the critical distinction, the core of Vedanta, which is to be made and from which answers can arise: “Which viewpoint am I speaking from, person or Consciousness?”

Yes, as person, I have no control over the results of action … “what happens”.

Q: I say “what happens”, because if a dog gets hit by a car in New Jersey, it’s not a result of my action, but just what happened. So, in addition to “the results of my actions are not up to me”… would it not be accurate to also say “what happens is not up to me”?

Yes. The results of action … “what happens” … are not up to me.

Q: I know that “ultimately” I have “no” control over anything (ie. no control over the thoughts that pop into my mind, no control over the actions I take, no control over the results of those actions and no control over the things that happen to this jiva or in the world at all).. Since I have no control “ultimately” over anything, I just surrender and let go..

As person, I do have a little control over which action I do. Swami Paramarthananda calls it ‘contributory free will’. I do have some free will and ‘contribute’ to the flow of action by making dharmic choices regarding which actions I do. I consider, choose, decide and act in an appropriate, ethical and timely manner. This personal choice of ‘contributory free will’ is a very small factor. 

If numbers can be used to illustrate, it would be 10%. This means 90% is not in my control. There are so many other factors within myself, in my immediate surroundings and from further afield, even cosmic factors, which have an influence.

As person, I do not have ‘controlling free will’, ie. I am not in complete control over ALL the factors involved in the performance of action. 

As far as results of action are concerned, it is 100% not in my control.

As Consciousness, I witness and am not involved in action. By my mere Presence, I, Consciousness, activate the mind-body mechanism which then performs action.

Q: I also have heard that Karma Yoga has to do with the “attitude in which actions are performed”. I understand the idea of performing actions without attachment to outcome (which plays more into the above yoga of “there’s no point in staying attached to an outcome since I don’t have control”), but I am unclear which of the (2) ideas are the “crux” of Karma Yoga:

1. I don’t have control, so I surrender … which is an attitude.

OR

2. Have an attitude of gratitude in whatever action is performed … as you state, is an attitude.

Karma yoga is both attitude and action. It applies to the person, jiva but not to Consciousness.

The word Karma by itself means action. 

The results of action are called Karma phalam, Karma ‘fruits’ = results, but is often abbreviated into just Karma. 

This can confuse as to what we are discussing … is it action or is it results-of-action?

Attitude 1 … I offer every ordinary action I do in daily life as an offering, a “thank you” to Ishvara. My whole life, all actions are a gift to Ishvara. Why? Not that Ishvara needs it !!!

It is because, as person, I have received so much from Ishvara, eg. life as a human being, because of which I can come to Vedanta and break free from the unending cycle of birth-death-rebirth, my basic needs of life attended to, etc. So, there is gratitude in general and gratitude in the performance of action, a ‘particularised’ or focussed attitude of gratitude.

Swami Dayananda said there is no such thing as atheistic or secular Karma yoga, meaning, there must be a connection with something larger than the individual, ie. Ishvara, the Dharma Field or as some call it “The Universe”. Ishvara is not a person, not a personal God, but the sum total of all the laws, powers, principles, forces, matter, etc. that govern the universe. I offer my actions as an offering to Ishvara.

Attitude 2 … I accept whatever result comes as a gift from Ishvara. The result may be as expected, more than expected, less than expected, the very opposite of what I expected. I accept with gratitude, whatever the result.

So, Karma yoga is the attitude of gratitude in the performance of action which is made as an offering to Ishvara. Karma yoga is the attitude of gratitude in receiving the results of action. This attitude towards action and its result is in the context or background of “generalised gratitude” in life. I am grateful about everything.

In summary

Karma yoga is a technique used in Vedanta for beginner seekers to maintain a strong connection with Ishvara. It involves an extroversion of the mind. 

As one matures, the middling seeker is encouraged to introvert the attention through Upasana yoga or meditation practice. The goals of the seeker can be fulfilled only within, hence the need for introversion.

With further maturation, the advanced seeker is introduced to Jnana yoga where the focus shifts to discovering the underlying nature of oneself as pure Consciousness and the unity, one-ness, non-separateness, non-duality between the jiva and Ishvara. This is liberation, the goal of Vedanta.

Swami Paramarthananda describes it as … from “object-dependence”( ie. dependence on objects for happiness, the trap for jiva) … “to God-dependence”, (ie. dependence on Ishvara/God for happinesss, still depending on something external ) … to “Self-dependence”, (ie. dependence on Oneself as Consciousness for happiness).